Talk:Marriage

Argument about same-sex unions

This is from enwp:

Marriage is a personal union of individuals. This union may also be called matrimony, while the ceremony that marks its beginning is usually called a wedding and the married status created is sometimes called wedlock.

Marriage is an institution in which interpersonal relationships (usually intimate and sexual) are acknowledged by the state or by religious authority. It is often viewed as a contract. Civil marriage is the legal concept of marriage as a governmental institution, in accordance with marriage laws of the jurisdiction. If recognized by the state, by the religion(s) to which the parties belong or by society in general, the act of marriage changes the personal and social status of the individuals who enter into it.

People marry for many reasons, but usually one or more of the following: legal, social, and economic stability; the formation of a family unit; procreation and the education and nurturing of children; legitimizing sexual relations; public declaration of love; or to obtain citizenship.[1][2]

Marriage may take many forms: for example, a union between one man and one woman as husband and wife is a monogamous heterosexual marriage; polygamy – in which a person takes more than one spouse – is common in many societies.[3] Recently, some jurisdictions[4] and denominations have begun to recognize same-sex marriage, uniting people of the same sex.[citation needed]

A marriage is often formalized during a marriage ceremony,[5] which may be performed either by a religious officiant, by a secular State authorised officiator, or (in weddings that have no church or state affiliation) by a trusted friend of the wedding participants. The act of marriage usually creates normative or legal obligations between the individuals involved and, in many societies, their extended families.

Article 16 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights declares that "Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution. Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses." The Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam gives men and women the "right to marriage" regardless of their race, colour or nationality, but not religion.

Just as an information: Belgium, the Netherlands, Canada, South Africa and the US states of Massachusetts and California allow same-sex unions they call marriage. Switzerland (and possibly other countries) also allows same-sex unions, but these are not called marriage. --Eptalon (talk) 08:52, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

The wikipedia marriage article is a poor example of a reference point. See marriage section below. 75.168.221.28 (talk) 00:47, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

NPOV tag

I have added the NPOV tag, because I think that the view that marriage only concerns mixed-sex unions is biased, several counties (see above) allow same-sex unions that are sometimes called marriage. Since I am directly involved here, I will not do the changes necessary, as my feeling may change what I write. --Eptalon (talk) 17:20, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Marriage

The wikipedia marriage page was a war zone. Due to the cultural demographics of wikipedia, like-minded editors and wikiadmins were able to manufacture "consensus", delete articles, abrogate objective truth, and ban editors. It's just a matter of time until the same happens here. Using the wikipedia entry for marriage is poor justification for your argument. He who controls information controls reality. 75.168.204.128 (talk) 17:55, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

You need to accept the fact that marriage no longer is simply between a man and a woman. If I walk into the civil office or whatever where I live, it no longer has "he" and "she" on the forms, but "first partner" and "second partner." That's because our Supreme Court is full of "activist judges" who decided not follow the "will" of Prop. 22. cassandra (talk) 18:02, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

You need to accept the fact that you are engaging in social activism - at the expense of objective truth that marriage has been defined throughout history as between a man and a women. This is cultural war, and obviously you will push your view at the expense of the - to borrow a wikipedia term - "consensus" of history and civilization. The article is now protected, obviously, so that your side of the argument can protect it's claim to advancing it's agenda. I expected this would happen. 75.168.204.128 (talk) 18:27, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

(unindenting) Marriage is a union between people. You seem to accept that some cultures have the concept that one man can marry many women (called polygamy), that one woman can marry many men (polyandry), or that many men can marry many women (called group marriage) - Yet you seem to fail to accept that some countries see the "root" of marriage - a contract between (usually two) people to make passing on goods easier. In that context, the sex of the partners becomes irrelevant. - What you personally believe to be "good" or "right" is irrelevant - Throughout history, slavery has been seen as a good thing to have; today, most countries abolished it (and an UN Charter made it illegal). Troughout history, women were seen as needing the protection of a man. For most of history, they did not have the right to vote. Outrageously enough, women can vote in most countries, nowadays. Saudi Arabia says women may not drive a car, how many women drivers are there in the US? - In very short: history changes, saying something is true, because it historically has been the case, is false. See en:Ignoratio elenchi and en:Non sequitur (logic). In very broad terms, what you do is en:Argumentum ad populum.--Eptalon (talk) 10:06, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Aside from the red herring, the definition of marriage is not negotiable. 75.168.221.28 (talk) 01:31, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Today the people who make laws define what marriage is. In the case of the Netherlands and other countries (see list above), they said that same-sex partners can also marry; Lutheran churches in the Netherlands (and other countries) recognise them as essentially equivalent to opposite-sex unions. Just because some religious communities (among them, the Catholic Church) do not recognise these (and therefore perform no same-sex marriage rites) does not make them illegal. What counts today is the marriage delcaration before the state, not the marriage delcaration in Church.--Eptalon (talk) 09:07, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I have added a paragraph, with references to the Dutch official law text, and the website of the Protestant Church in the Netherlands. We also have an article on same-sex marriage which I linked. --Eptalon (talk) 09:48, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

{{editsemiprotected}} Hey can you unlock this page so every one can edit 199.119.28.210 (talk) 11:06, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

 Not done This page is not protected. You are free to edit it. Remember to follow Wikipedia's policies such as describing from a neutral POV and verifiability of information.— *Fehufangą ♮ ✉ Talk page 06:20, 31 March 2024 (UTC)