Talk:Asperger syndrome

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Over-exaggeration of Aspie intelligence?[change source]

There are a tiny amount of people I know who were diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome and have learning difficulties (or 'learning disability/mental retardation' in the US). It is definately in the scope of this article to mention that a tiny minority will have only borderline intelligence (if you're too insufferably egocentric to admit some of your kind will have intellectual deficiencies at the ridicule-making level), and it musn't be constantly overstated that there are geniuses; it seems that too much emphasis is on this population making it appear as if Asperger's is indeed genius, when in fact it is not.

I am a sufferer myself. Most of my bias may seem to be that I'm only of mediocre intelligence and so have resent towards both of these population extremes. I'm sure though that the same can be argued of the 'geniuses' that supposedly edit this article. (This comment was unsigned and has gone without response)

response[change source]

It is perfectly true that there are people who have been diagnosed as having A.S. or Autistic Spectrum Disorder and who also suffer intellectual retardation or mental illness.

There are several classes of such people who are typically diagnosed or misdiagnosed as having Asperger Syndrome.

  1. Children who are to develop schizphorenia in their late teens sometimes demonstrate unusual behavioural patterns in their childhood/early teens (such as widrawal from friends and family) which are sometimes diagnosed as AS before full-blown schizophrenia manifests itself. I am not suggesting here that AS leads to Schizophrenia, but that doctors are unwilling or unable to make an early diagnosis of schizoid behavioural patterns.
  2. Children who have Fragile X syndrome demonstrate a number of AS characteristics. Male children generally demonstrate intellectual disability, which may be extremely severe. Other males (even within the same family) may demonstrate a much milder degree of intellectual retardation, but show symptoms that are allied to AS such as hand-flapping, repeating words, avoidance of eye-contact. These children may be diagnosed as having Fragile X Syndrome and AS. However, the AS-like symptoms seem to be very much part of Fragile X. My feeling is that a diagnosis of Fragile X ought to proclude a diagnosis of AS.
  3. More about Fragile X. Girls with this condition frequently go undiagnosed as children, unless their brothers manifest with symptoms. Girls with Fragile X frequently show no intellectual disabilty, and may be very clever. However, they often suffer emotional instabilty, erratic behaviour patterns, substance abuse and mental illness. As children, they may also be diagnosed as having Asperger syndrome. However, it is characteristic of AS girls that they are stable in their interests and consistent in their behaviour. This is quite unlike Fragile X girls.

Aspie girls can be very out-spoken, direct and bossy. Hermione Granger from the Harry Potter series is a typical Aspie girl. She alienates people by being a know-it-all, a do-gooder, and overstepping boundaries by the sheer force of her intelligence and common-sense. She is quite distressed to discover that other people don't like these things and that it accounts for her shortage of friends. Luna Lovegood is at the introvert end of female Aspie behaviour- she has no awareness of common convention (which Hermione clings to rigidly) and comes out with statements that are positively weird. Both girls are stable, supportive, sensible and driven by humanitarian ideals. A good many Aspie girls are like this. They are generally harder to pick than the boys.

While I know a considerable number of people with intellectual disability who have been diagnosed as having AS, I don't know a single person of "mediocre intelligence", as the poster to whom I am replying describes themselves. In my personal experience "mediocre intelligence" is a rare thing among Aspies.

The adults that I know with AS are computer programmers, painters, poets, botanists, medical researchers, environmentalists, novelists, school teachers, historians, musicians, forensic scientists, anarchists and dropouts. Of them a very large number have doctorates. Some of them, mainly the computer programmers, left education without degrees because their teenage skills were already more advanced than the university courses that were being offered in their subject.

My gut feeling is that having a passion for ones' subject is (or ought to be) part of the AS diagnosis. My expectation of an Aspie is that they will know all about something, whether it be Dr Who, T-bird convertibles, high voltage structures, beer bottle tops, coastal whale migration or the tragic history of the 9th legion. If a person flops around in a disinterested way, claiming mediocrity, and showing no passion for anything at all, then Asperger Syndrome is probably an incorrect diagnosis.

I shall investigate the case of the "mediocre" Aspie more fully, and get back to this in due course. Amandajm (talk) 09:45, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Dispute over neutrality[change source]

Who's disputing the neutrality of the article? Andrew Hampe 16:55, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I am. The first paragraph alone upsets me. As a diagnosed Asperger's sufferer, I can assure you I understand facial expressions, sarcasm, and irony perfectly fine. Different people suffer autism differently. Misaki-chi 11:05, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Can you make suggestions on how to improve it and keep it simple at the same time? - Feel free to edit to your liking. --Eptalon 11:13, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
Also being a sufferer myself, it might be worth a mention that Albert Einstein had AS. -- Spiderpig0001 Does whatever a spiderpig does! 11:58, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Einstein did not meet diagnostic criteria for any of the autism spectrum disorders. In any case, reputable psychologists do not assign retrospective diagnoses. Cwilsyn (talk) 08:09, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Appropriateness of Images[change source]

I'm wondering what the relevance of the image gallery on the page is. Any ideas or thoughts, or can it just be removed? Ziege19 (talk) 11:29, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi Ziege19! The images in the gallery were selected for their "appropriateness". They all relate to aspects of Asperger Syndrome, and convey info in pics rather than words. Since you appear to be a brand new editor, I would advise approaching with a little more caution than leaping in and deleting a whole gallery, as your very first edit! Unless you think it is making total nonsense of the subject. And I can assure you that it isn't Amandajm (talk) 14:55, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
I too was confused by this section. Can we explain the significance of the gallery in the article please otherwise it does appear to be completely out of context. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
The significance of the gallery was subsequently explained in writing. However, the individual images were left without individual explanation. The explanation was apparently deemed insufficient and images were then deleted, leaving the paragraph that explained them without the images that it pertained to. The explanation was subsequently deleted as well. Amandajm (talk) 07:52, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Below is the gallery, for those who might find it interesting:

A gallery of interesting things

The pictures in this gallery show some of the types of things that people with Asperger Syndrome find interesting.

People who have Asperger Syndrome often learn by seeing, rather than by reading information or hearing information. People who have Asperger Syndrome are often very observant. This means that they notice things that many people do not notice. They often see and compare small details. They often notice the patterns that things make. They often like to put things into order, like the little boy in one of the photos.

People with Asperger Syndrome often like to remember and obey rules. They like lists, signs and systems that help people to live in a well-organised way. One of the photos shows Temple Grandin, who has invented a system for keeping cattle calm.

People with Asperger Syndrome often like to memorise many facts and figures that other people do not find interesting. They often use these facts and figures to compare things, or to do mathematical calculations. Some people with Asperger Syndrome like to memorise the plans and all the measurements of famous buildings like the Houses of Parliament in the photo.

Many people with Asperger Syndrome like to collect things, or take lots of photos of the things that they are interested in. These things may not seem very interesting to many other people. The sorts of things that people with Asperger Syndrome collect include house numbers and photos of radio transmitters.

Amandajm (talk) 07:51, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Rename[change source]

The more accepted name is Asperger syndrome (with or without syndrome capitalized; en:WP does not capitalize it). I would go ahead and move it myself, but I see that it has been moved before to that name but is back here somehow, so I thought I would pose the issue here first and come back to it tomorrow. Whatever we decide on needs to be consistent. The name and capitalization are both inconsistent within the article. Kansan (talk) 05:08, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Really?[change source]

It says that one of the signs/symptoms is being bullied by other kids at school. Really? Most bullies are mean towards other people because of their own problems (insecurities). One of the symptoms of Aspergers is not being bullied, but having it may lead to bullying other children. Pawsrent (talk) 23:31, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

"most bullies"? Where did you get that from? I got the idea that most bullying at school is carried out by groups of students against their classmates who are different and introvert. I never heard of someone with asperger's bullying others. 2001:5C0:1501:0:4003:3759:1B7E:2F72 (talk) 01:15, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
Two years down the line but, you're right. Being bullied at school is not a 'symptom' of Asperger syndrome. I've removed that part. Kennedy (talk) 09:59, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Really![change source]

How can a brand new editor come along and make really extensive changes, make the language more complex and delete lists of symptoms, leave no edit summary, and yet have their actions completely ignored by later editors? Well, I'm back, and I'm going round the traps! Amandajm (talk) 07:18, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Sometimes these things just sneak through, so I am glad your back. --Peterdownunder (talk) 07:45, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Famous people[change source]

The source for the famous people who supposedly had asperger's is a blog post. It's retarded just how much you people want to believe that your social awkwardness is an unfixable disease. I'm offended that my inclusion of jimbo wales on that list has been reverted. I have clearly as many credentials as some random dude with a blog to rule that he is a sufferer of this _debilitating_ disorder. It's not something to be proud off and self-diagnose to justify your inability to adapt, and most of the claims about "high inteligence" are dubious at best. 79.191.122.218 (talk) 17:02, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

The "Notable People with Asperger Syndrome" section needs to be fixed or deleted.[change source]

I don't think that the Notable People section is good enough to be included as it presently stands.. There are no references, which is my main problem with it. Diagnosing these people without sources is WP:OR at best, and libel at worst. Then there's that I personally don't think that most of those people would qualify for an Asperger diagnosis (I don't see much evidence for Michael Jackson, there is some evidence for Einstein but he was a charismatic and outgoing person, there is a lot of evidence for Gates but without a source it's useless, etc.). We should follow the examples at the en Wikipedia. The en:List of people on the autism spectrum list has definite sources and people like Temple Grandin, who has been formally diagnosed with an autism spectrum disorder, and Hikari Ōe,, who has classic autism or high-functioning autism. For the en:Historical figures sometimes considered autistic page, which is speculation, every historical figure on there is sourced. I'll try to fix that section (or just scrap that section and start a new page). But I think the ideal solution would be to delete it. --Maniesansdelire (talk) 01:10, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Removal of laundry list of symptoms, effects, and characteristics[change source]

I removed a very long list of symptoms, effects, and characteristics that was so general and inclusive as to have little meaning. None of it was referenced. Improperly included external links and opinion were also not helpful in an article on this topic. If properly referenced, some of this can be replaced at a later date. Gotanda (talk) 09:10, 11 February 2013 (UTC)


Hold on there, Gotanda, the WHOLE ARTICLE is unreferenced, line by line, as is Aspergers in general, but there are general references at the bottom of the page for further corroborative reading. Rather than kill the list, why not provide references? The list was excellent, as testified to by (a) the age of the page, and (b) the TALK page here where the list has not bothered us as we chatted about other things. A quick Google search "define aspergers" leads to:

Definition
By Mayo Clinic staff
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/aspergers-syndrome/DS00551


Asperger's syndrome is a developmental disorder that affects a person's ability to socialize and communicate effectively with others. Children with Asperger's syndrome typically exhibit social awkwardness and an all-absorbing interest in specific topics.


Doctors group Asperger's syndrome with other conditions that are called autistic spectrum disorders or pervasive developmental disorders. These disorders all involve problems with social skills and communication. Asperger's syndrome is generally thought to be at the milder end of this spectrum.


While there's no cure for Asperger's syndrome, if your child has the condition treatment can help him or her learn how to interact more successfully in social situations.


Symptoms
By Mayo Clinic staff
Asperger's syndrome symptoms include:
* Engaging in one-sided, long-winded conversations, without noticing if the listener is listening or trying to change the subject
* Displaying unusual nonverbal communication, such as lack of eye contact, few facial expressions, or awkward body postures and gestures
* Showing an intense obsession with one or two specific, narrow subjects, such as baseball statistics, train schedules, weather or snakes
* Appearing not to understand, empathize with or be sensitive to others' feelings
* Having a hard time "reading" other people or understanding humor
* Speaking in a voice that is monotonous, rigid or unusually fast
* Moving clumsily, with poor coordination


Unlike children with more-severe forms of autism spectrum disorders, those with Asperger's syndrome usually don't have delays in the development of language skills. That means your child will use single words by the age of 2 and phrases by the time he or she is 3 years old. But, children with Asperger's syndrome may have difficulties holding normal conversations. Conversations may feel awkward and lack the usual give and take of normal social interactions.


Toddlers and school-age children with Asperger's syndrome may not show an interest in friendships. Youngsters with Asperger's often have developmental delays in their motor skills, such as walking, catching a ball or playing on playground equipment.


In early childhood, kids with Asperger's may be quite active. By young adulthood, people with Asperger's syndrome may experience depression or anxiety.


When to see a doctor


All kids have their quirks, and many toddlers show a sign or symptom of Asperger's syndrome at some point. It's natural for small children to be egocentric, and many children show a strong interest in a particular topic, such as dinosaurs or a favorite fictional character. These generally aren't reasons to be alarmed.


However, if your elementary schoolchild has frequent problems in school or seems unable to make friends, it's time to talk with your child's doctor. These difficulties have many possible causes, but developmental disorders such as Asperger's syndrome need to be considered. Children who have behaviors that interfere with learning and social development should have a comprehensive evaluation.


Causes
By Mayo Clinic staff


It's not clear what causes Asperger's syndrome, although changes in certain genes may be involved. The disorder also seems to be linked to changes in the structure of the brain.


One factor that isn't associated with the development of Asperger's syndrome or other autism spectrum disorders is childhood immunizations.


Risk factors
By Mayo Clinic staff


Boys are far more likely to develop Asperger's syndrome than are girls. (that's ALL they have to say?!?)


Preparing for your appointment
By Mayo Clinic staff


You'll probably first see your child's pediatrician or family doctor, who will likely refer your child to a mental health expert, such as a child psychologist or psychiatrist.


Being well prepared can help you make the most of your appointment. Here's some information to help you get ready for your appointment, and what to expect from your doctor.


What you can do


* Write down any symptoms you've noticed in your child, including any that may seem unrelated to the reason for which you scheduled the appointment.
* Write down key personal information, including any major stresses or recent life changes.
* Make a list of any medications, as well as any vitamins or supplements, that your child is taking.
* Ask a family member or friend to join you and your child for the appointment, if possible. Sometimes it can be difficult to soak up all the information provided during an appointment. Someone who accompanies you may remember something that you missed or forgot.
* Write down questions to ask your doctor.


Preparing a list of questions ahead of time will help save time for the things you want to discuss most. List your questions from most important to least important in case time runs out. For Asperger's syndrome, some basic questions to ask your doctor include:


* What is likely causing my child's behavior?
* Are there other possible causes?
* What kinds of tests does my child need?
* Will he or she outgrow this condition?
* What treatments can help?
* Can these treatments cure Asperger's syndrome?
* Are there any specialized programs available to help educate my child regarding social skills?
* What should I tell his or her school?
* What are the alternatives to the primary approach that you're suggesting?
* Would changes in diet help?
* What's the prognosis for my child? Can he or she live a relatively normal life?
* Should I see a specialist?
* Are there any brochures or other printed material that I can take home with me? What websites do you recommend visiting?


In addition to the questions that you've prepared to ask your doctor, don't hesitate to ask additional questions during your appointment.


What to expect from your doctor
Your doctor is likely to ask you a number of questions, including:


* What specific behaviors prompted your visit today?
* When did you first notice these symptoms in your child?
* Have these behaviors been continuous, or occasional?
* Does anything seem to improve your child's symptoms?
* What, if anything, appears to worsen your child's symptoms?
* When did your child first crawl? Walk? Say his or her first word?
* Does your child have close friends?
* What are some of your child's favorite activities? Is there one that he or she favors?
* Have you noticed a change in his or her level of frustration in social settings?


Tests and diagnosis
By Mayo Clinic staff


Because Asperger's syndrome varies widely in severity and signs, making a diagnosis can be difficult. If your child shows some signs of Asperger's syndrome, your doctor may suggest a comprehensive assessment by a team of professionals.


This evaluation will likely include observing your child and talking to you about your child's development. You may be asked about your child's social interaction, communication skills and friendships. Your child may also have a number of tests to determine his or her level of intellect and academic abilities. Tests may examine your child's abilities in the areas of speech, language and visual-motor problem solving. Tests can also identify other emotional, behavioral and psychological issues.


To be diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome, your child's signs and symptoms must match the criteria spelled out in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), a manual published by the American Psychiatric Association and used by mental health providers to diagnose mental conditions.


Some of the DSM criteria for Asperger's syndrome are:


* No significant language delays
* A lack of eye to eye contact
* Unusual body posture or social expressions
* Difficulty making friends
* A preoccupation with one subject
* No interest in interactive play
* An inflexible attitude toward change


Unfortunately, some children with Asperger's syndrome may initially be misdiagnosed with another problem, such as attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) or obsessive-compulsive disorder, possibly because the symptoms of some conditions are similar to those of Asperger's. Additionally, these other conditions may coexist with Asperger's, which can delay the diagnosis.


Treatments and drugs
By Mayo Clinic staff


The core signs of Asperger's syndrome can't be cured. However, many children with Asperger's syndrome grow into happy and well-adjusted adults.


Most children benefit from early specialized interventions that focus on behavior management and social skills training. Your doctor can help identify resources in your area that may work for your child.


Asperger's syndrome treatment options may include:


Communication and social skills training
Children with Asperger's syndrome may be able to learn the unwritten rules of socialization and communication when taught in an explicit and rote fashion, much like the way students learn foreign languages. Children with Asperger's syndrome may also learn how to speak in a more natural rhythm, as well as how to interpret communication techniques, such as gestures, eye contact, tone of voice, humor and sarcasm.


Cognitive behavioral therapy
This general term encompasses many techniques aimed at curbing problem behaviors, such as interrupting, obsessions, meltdowns or angry outbursts, as well as developing skills such as recognizing feelings and coping with anxiety. Cognitive behavioral therapy usually focuses on training a child to recognize a troublesome situation — such as a new place or an event with lots of social demands — and then select a specific learned strategy to cope with the situation.


Medication
There are no medications that specifically treat Asperger's syndrome. But some medications may improve specific symptoms — such as anxiety, depression or hyperactivity — that can occur in many children with Asperger's syndrome. Examples include:


* Aripiprazole (Abilify). This drug may be effective for treating irritability related to Asperger's syndrome. Side effects may include weight gain and an increase in blood sugar levels.
* Guanfacine (Intuniv). This medication may be helpful for the problems of hyperactivity and inattention in children with Asperger's syndrome. Side effects may include drowsiness, irritability, headache, constipation and bedwetting.
* Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs). Drugs such as fluvoxamine (Luvox) may be used to treat depression or to help control repetitive behaviors. Possible side effects include restlessness and agitation.
* Risperidone (Risperdal). This medication may be prescribed for agitation and irritability. It may cause trouble sleeping, a runny nose and an increased appetite. This drug has also been associated with an increase in cholesterol and blood sugar levels.
* Olanzapine (Zyprexa). Olanzapine is sometimes prescribed to reduce repetitive behaviors. Possible side effects include increased appetite, drowsiness, weight gain, and increased blood sugar and cholesterol levels.
* Naltrexone (Revia). This medication, which is sometimes used to help alcoholics stop drinking, may help reduce some of the repetitive behaviors associated with Asperger's syndrome. However, the use of low-dose naltrexone — in doses as low as two to four mg a day — has been gaining favor recently. But, there's no good evidence that such low doses have any effect on Asperger's syndrome.


Alternative medicine
By Mayo Clinic staff


Because there are no definitive treatments for Asperger's syndrome, some parents may turn to complementary or alternative therapies. However, most of these treatments haven't been adequately studied. It's possible that by focusing on alternative treatments, you may miss out on behavior therapies that have more evidence to support their use.


Of greater concern, however, is that some treatments may not be safe. The Food and Drug Administration has warned about over-the-counter chelation medications. These drugs have been marketed as a therapy for autism spectrum disorders and other conditions. Chelation is a therapy that removes heavy metals from the body, but there are no over-the-counter chelation therapies that are approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). This type of therapy should only be done under the close supervision of medical professionals. According to the FDA, the risks of chelation include dehydration, kidney failure and even death.


Other examples of alternative therapies that have been used for Asperger's syndrome include:


Melatonin
Sleep problems are common in children with Asperger's syndrome, and melatonin supplements may help regulate your child's sleep-wake cycle. The recommended dose is 3 mg, 30 minutes before bedtime. Possible side effects include excessive sleepiness, dizziness and headache.


Other dietary supplements
Numerous dietary supplements have been tried in people with autism spectrum disorders, including Asperger's syndrome. Those that may have some evidence to support their use include:


* Vitamin B-6 and magnesium
* Vitamin C (usually in combination with other vitamins)
* Carnosine
* Omega-3 fatty acids


Avoidance diets
Some parents have turned to gluten-free or casein-free diets to treat autism spectrum disorders. There's no clear evidence that these diets work, and anyone attempting such a diet for their child needs guidance from a registered dietitian to ensure the child's nutritional requirements are met.


Secretin
This gastrointestinal hormone has been tried as a potential treatment. Numerous studies have been conducted on secretin, and none found any evidence that it helps.


Other therapies that have been tried, but lack objective evidence to support their use include hyperbaric oxygen therapy, immune therapies, antibiotics, antifungal drugs, chiropractic manipulations, massage and craniosacral massage, and transcranial magnetic stimulation.


Coping and support
By Mayo Clinic staff


Asperger's syndrome can be a difficult, lonely disorder — both for affected children and their parents. The disorder brings difficulties socializing and communicating with your child. It may also mean fewer play dates and birthday invitations and more stares at the grocery store from people who don't understand that a child's meltdown is part of a disability, not the result of "bad parenting."


Luckily, as this disorder gains widespread recognition and attention, there are more and more sources of help. Here are a few suggestions:


* Maintain a consistent schedule whenever possible. If you have to introduce change, try to do so gradually.
* Learn about the disorder. There are numerous books and websites dedicated to the disorder. Do some research so that you better understand your child's challenges and the range of services in your school district and state that may help.
* Learn about your child. The signs and symptoms of Asperger's syndrome vary for each child, and young children have a hard time explaining their behaviors and challenges. But, with time and patience, you'll learn which situations and environments may cause problems for your child and which coping strategies work. Keeping a diary and looking for patterns may help.
* Find a team of trusted professionals. You'll need to make important decisions about your child's education and treatment. Find a team of teachers and therapists who can help evaluate the options in your area and explain the federal regulations regarding children with disabilities.
* Help others help your child. Most children with Asperger's syndrome have no visible sign of disability, so you may need to alert coaches, relatives and other adults to your child's special needs. Otherwise, a well-meaning coach may spend time lecturing your child on "looking at me while I'm talking" — something that can be very difficult for a child with Asperger's syndrome.
* Help your child turn his or her obsession into a passion. The tendency to fixate on a particular narrow topic is one of the hallmarks of Asperger's syndrome, and it can be annoying to those who must listen to incessant talk about the topic every day. But a consuming interest can also connect a child with Asperger's syndrome to schoolwork and social activities. In some cases, kids with Asperger's syndrome can even turn their childhood fascination into a career or profession.
* Find support. Lean on family and friends when you can. Ask someone who understands your child's needs to babysit sometimes so that you can get an occasional break. You may also find a support group for parents of children with Asperger's syndrome helpful. Ask your child's doctor if he or she knows of any groups in your area. Or, visit the Online Asperger Syndrome Information and Support website.


Do YOU want to sift through all that and the dozens of other web sites and books in print to create a scholarly summary with references? Me neither! =8^o Especially since all of our personal experiences vary and often disagree with the pontificating "experts". So, let's discuss here on the TALK pages and keep the main article as complete and useful as possible and ONLY make it better, not less. PS: for example, I like the idea of the photo samples, I'm glad they were brought to the discussion page, and I agree they need to be polished and referenced before going to the front page because they border on original work, not referenced work. --Peterblaise (talk) 12:02, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Blogs are for personal experiences. Simple English Wikipedia is for encyclopedic content, not personal experiences. If you do not wish to supply the references, then so be it. That is the work of creating an encyclopedia. Improper links to external websites are not appropriate. Long lists of unreferenced personal opinions are not "complete" articles, they are simply long. Long is not the same as complete. Age of the article is not relevant because this is a small wiki and many articles need attention. Others have disputed the article earlier in the talk page if you go back and read the beginning. Substantiate the laundry list of opinions with references or else they are just one point of view--a point of view which may cause problems for parents and children attempting to understand this issue. Gotanda (talk) 12:39, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Gotanda wrote, "... Substantiate the laundry list of opinions with references or else they are just one point of view--a point of view which may cause problems for parents and children attempting to understand this issue ...:


Peter Blaise responds: So, please, go ahead, substantiate where things referenced here are originally published by authorities, if there be any authorities on Aspergers except Aspergians themselves.
We're all trying to do that without mere cut-and-paste copying, as I did here in the TALK page above from the Mayo Clinic.
Gotanda, feel free to read not only the Mayo Clinic, but, as I said, dozens of other web sites and books in print in order to

  • not only present a copious overview of Asperger's known and published knowledge,
  • but remember to KEEP IT SIMPLE because this is the "simple" Wikipedia!

Mere deletion of unreferenced contents does not help.
Finding references and making the article better does help.
We are probably pursuing the same goals, you and I, but

  • you appear to prefer deletion if contents are not perfect, and
  • I prefer perfection as a process, and endless process, of acceptance and making things better as a cooperative, inclusive effort.

Also, bear in mind that wholesale deletion of other people's contributions disheartens nascent contributors and makes us disinclined to contribute further.
Editing, not deletion, encourages ongoing participation and making things better a step at a time, with everyone on board, no one tossed overboard.
If someone wants to cull the Mayo Clinic (and other) references to make the article listings "referenced", please do -- I disagree with much of what comes from the medical-pharmacological-legal triumvirate and am averse to refer to them as if they are THE legitimate authorities.
I prefer the horse's mouth, so to speak, so reading real Aspergian's life testimony, such as from:

and others, and reporting back, makes more sense to me than quoting the Mayo Clinic staff.
Gotanda, I beg you, please do not do the easy thing of merely deleting other people's work; instead, let's do the hard thing of actually editing and enhancing to bring an article to the next step, incorporating the hard work of others before us, instead of tossing it.
It's harder, but worth it, and so much more inclusive of everyone's hard wrought efforts.
Thank you. --Peterblaise (talk) 14:41, 11 February 2013 (UTC)


MANY additional sources of symptoms needed, please find and update article[change source]

As of 2013-02-11, the following was removed as "unreferenced", though I found it corresponded exactly with the contents of the references links at the bottom of the article and with the contents of web articles and books, especially books by self-testifying Asperger authors sharing their direct experiences. If we can find references for these below and other information, perhaps we can move some and add to the front page to make the article accurate and not risk continuous deletion.

Note: Wikipedia is never a SOURCE, so no one has ever been lead to think of Wikipedia as authoritative, Conversely, Wikipedia has always been considered a reference leading to sources, as all encyclopedia have always been considered. Any parent who becomes fearful or confused after reading any encyclopedia article have problems no encyclopedia can fix by editing or deletion.

Here are the "unreferenced" lists in question -- please help source them and move them back to the main article:

Signs and symptoms[change source]

A "syndrome" is a pattern of signs and symptoms that doctors can see in many different people. Here is a list of symptoms of Asperger syndrome. Not every person with Asperger syndrome has every symptom.

People with Asperger syndrome:

  • may be too sensitive to touch, textures, surfaces, smells, light or loud noise
  • may be clumsy when walking or playing sports
  • may speak faster or slower than they should
  • may have trouble understanding other people's feelings
  • may have trouble seeing what other people feel by their facial expressions
  • may have trouble understanding when someone is joking or using language that could mean more than one thing
  • may often have a loud voice, a very quiet voice, or a voice that does not express emotion (a "monotonous" voice)
  • often do not like changes in school, work, and home life routines
  • may learn to tie shoes very late
  • may learn to speak very early or very late
  • often learn to read very early or very late
  • may perform/appear average despite high level intelligence
  • IQ scores may drastically fluctuate between tests
  • over-think everything
  • slow test taker or bad at taking tests
  • may have trouble making friends
  • may have trouble understanding what other people are thinking
  • as children, might look shorter and younger than the average for their age
  • often have extremely good memory
  • eclectic vocabulary
  • may have trouble with understanding things they hear, although their hearing is fine
  • low or extremely high, but eccentric sexual interest
  • often have a strong interest or hobby such as a computer game, history, a band, sport statistics, or a TV show
  • may have problems with understanding or not be interested in pretend play
  • may make rhythmic and repeated movements
  • may be viewed by others as 'inconsiderate' because they tend to talk at people rather than to people, without realising that they are doing it

Effects of difficulties in communication[change source]

When people talk to each other, they use spoken words to communicate. They also use the sound of their voice and "non-verbal communication" such as facial expression, hand movements, and "body language" to give meaning to what they say. This means that while people are talking, they are also looking for signs in the other person's face and the movement of their body to tell how they are feeling and whether they mean exactly the same as their words are saying. When people talk, they use "non-verbal communication" to add more information to their words. People who have trouble with understanding non-verbal communication, like people with Asperger syndrome, will miss this extra information.

People with Asperger syndrome:

  • may have difficulty reading the sound of people's voices.
  • may become confused if a person's body language and words don't say the same thing.
  • may try to do exactly what someone else's words say. So if someone says "Grab your partner for the next dance", then they literally grab a dancer, instead of understanding that the sentence means, "Ask someone politely to dance with you." (take things very literally)
  • may not know that another person is upset or annoyed, until the other person shows it overtly.
  • may not understand that when someone frowns at them it means "You are saying or doing the wrong thing and you should stop now!".
  • tend to say the wrong thing at the wrong time, without considering the emotions of the people around them.
  • may not know if a person is joking. They have difficulty understanding irony, sarcasm, and slang.
  • may not understand the interests of other people or why other people do the things that they do.
  • may like doing or saying the same thing over and over again. Other people can find this annoying.
  • may not know, unless they are told, when other people want them to stop talking about their interests.
  • are not aware of whether the person they're talking to is interested in what they are talking about.
  • may feel lonely and unwanted.

Asperger syndrome is sometimes called "wrong planet" syndrome because people with Asperger syndrome often feel that they are aliens on Earth, that they are from some other planet where they would be considered normal. For a person with Asperger syndrome, having Asperger syndrome is normal, because they have had it all their life. Wrong Planet (sometimes referred to by its URL, WrongPlanet.net) is an online community for individuals with Autism and Aspergers.

Talents[change source]

People with Asperger syndrome often:

  • like to act in a way that is sensible
  • see and remember the details of things that other people miss
  • mental arithmetic
  • are very good at remembering rules, laws, systems and important facts. This talent is useful in many types of work
  • are better at writing than at talking to people, because they are careful to choose words that mean exactly what they want to say
  • do well at maths, computer programming and science
  • do well at drawing, painting, photography, acting or music
  • have a special interest that they become experts in
  • enjoy doing the same thing many times over, which some people find boring. Many people with Asperger Syndrome are good at practicing scales on the piano, at multiplying large products, and at searching through books and papers to find information and mistakes
  • Some people with Asperger Syndrome can mimic voices if they are scripted, even just slightly.

Thanks -- --Peterblaise (talk) 02:10, 12 February 2013 (UTC)