Talk:France

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France is a country divided in 'régions' and 'départements'

I noticed this was written as on the page. This may be interesting to know, but it probably won't mean much to a reader unless they know the English equivalents of these words. I'm not French and I don't know the language, but if someone does know the English equivalents, please add them to the article. Nechayev 22:28, 13 November 2005 (UTC)


Reply
I'm French, so I understand these words. They are administrative divisions of France and, as far as I know, there is no English equivalent.

Rogue link[change source]

In there interwiki links, there very first link to en: is a rogue one i do not find. Please remove it if you do --Eptalon 16:22, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

The interwiki link was added to Template:Europe. I've removed it since the target doesn't exist. J Di 16:27, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism and Inaccurate stuff[change source]

Hello everybody,

just 2 things i've noticed while reading this article :

- vandalism : i think the population item is not the best place on internet to put "i hate eleni blias";

- inaccurate information : France has not won the UEFA European Football Championship in 2006 but was finalist of the FIFA World Cup.

If nothing is done for the next 2 or 3 days, i'll fix these little errors myself !

GA Nomination of France[change source]

Hi. I wish to make a note here that while I agree basically with the nomination of this article to Good Article Status, there are some things which need changing on it, or pages creating explaining what these things are. Many users expecting simple English, are going to have difficulty working out what an "arondissement" is without a page explaining it (as has been done with Cantons and Communes), likewise with régions and départements as has been already mentioned, and the description of Corsica as a "collectivité territoriale".

Some of the language requires simplification, even though it is in English already; Monarchy, regime, metropolitan, moralists, prolific, varied and sovereignty are just some of those needing doing.

Also, some of the words have more than one meaning and these need disambiguating (splitting up into different descriptions to make them clearer.) Words like "Suspended", "Executed" and "influenced".

If these issues can be addressed, I believe this article stands a good chance of making it to GA.

Iceflow (talk) 22:45, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

In addition to the language issues note above by Iceflow, there are issues with referencing - I think we need to have more references which link to current data. The section on religion for example has assertions with no citations and a reference to a 2005 poll leads to a dead link. --Matilda (talk) 23:19, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I'll deal with both your issues tomorow. I'm to tired to do it now. Thanks for the comments both of you. Yotcmdr (talk) 23:25, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
See WP:PGA for my answers. Yotcmdr (talk) 13:03, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Problems with the article that should really be fixed[change source]

  • Lead
    • "France" is mentioned 11 times in 17 sentences making the prose really poor.

 Done Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 17:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

    • "France is a country divided into ..." - "a country" is redundant here, you've already said that in the opening sentence.

 Done Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 17:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

    • "powers" links to a disambiguation page.
What do you suggest? Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 17:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Creating a page specific to the meaning of power you are using here. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:24, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
    • Tense change from the "colonial empire" - does this empire still exist today? That's what the odd tense shift here implies.

 Done Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 17:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

    • The coat of arms articles states that this image is not the official coat of arms, yet the infobox says the opposite.
I think that's in the template. What do you suggest? Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 17:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
At the very least, a footnote. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:24, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I've fixed it, but it does make more sense linking it to weapns, as it's not about the electricity, but the warheads. Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 17:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

    • "Here is the country on a map of the world." I would rephrase. There are two maps here as well, one tiny and virtually useless one of the world, and one, much larger, of Europe and North Africa.
Again, I think that's built into the template. Suggestions? Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 17:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Be bold, change the template, but check other uses beforehand.
  • Geography
    • Could use some citations in this section as there are precisely zero.
    • Do we think "borders" is Simple?

 Done Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 17:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

    • Aha, it's linked on its second use. Please link the first one only.
What is linked a second time? Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 17:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
    • Where in France are the Alps and the Pyrenees?

 Done Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 17:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

    • "are a lot of rivers" isn't "many rivers" more elegant and still Simple?

 Done Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 17:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

    • This section then goes on to discuss climate so perhaps the heading of the section needs to be Geography and climate?

 Done Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 17:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

    • Split the paragraph when you go onto climate so it's a clear delineation.

 Done Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 17:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

    • "winters are cold and clear." what does "clear" mean in this context? Is it Simple?
It means that it doesn't rain much. Changed. Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 17:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
  • History
    • Could use some citations in this section as there are precisely zero.
    • When referring to the race, either use Gauls or Gauls, but not a mixture of both.

 Done Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 17:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

    • Is "precursor" Simple?
Don't think it is, but it is used in many other countries (Germany, France, the netherlands...). I've changed it anyway. Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 17:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
    • "Carolingian" needs explanation.

linked,  Done Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 17:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

    • Is "unified" Simple?

 Done linked to wiktionary. Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 17:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

    • Is "dynastic inheritance" Simple?
linked.  Done
    • "(see Demographics of France)" - yuck. This is why we have [1] piped wikilinking or [2] See also sections.
 Done
    • Is "Major scientific breakthroughs" Simple?

 Done Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 18:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

    • Is " obtained many overseas possessions" Simple?

 Done Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 18:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

    • Is "monarchy was re-established" Simple?

 Done Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 18:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

    • The History section ends abruptly before we get to 1900. Missing some significant portions of French histroy... Where are the First and Second World Wars, for instance?
Uh, will need a little more time for these. Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 18:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Divisions
    • Corse is listed and then you talk about Corsica. There's no obvious link for a non-expert reader.

 Done Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 18:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

    • Why the odd indentation for "Corsica has.." and "These four..." sentences?

 Done Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 18:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

    • "The smallest subdivision is the commune" smallest subdivision of what? And is "subdivision" Simple?

 Done Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 18:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

    • "metropolitan France" and "overseas France" both link to the same article. Confusing.
What do you want? I merged them together, semed better. Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 18:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
If linking both then they should link to, at the very least, different sections of the same article. Even better, a different article for each link. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:24, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
    • "This is more than in any other European country." prove it.
Removed statement, no reference found, sorry. Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 18:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Government
    • Could use some citations in this section as there are precisely zero.
    • "The nation declares itself to be "an indivisible, secular, democratic, and social Republic" in it." - in it? In what?
In it refers to in the constitution. Suggestions, on what I should do? Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 18:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
This is just not a Simple sentence. Firstly I would add "in the constitution" either at the beginning or end of this sentence. Secondly, the complex terms like "indivisible", "secular", "democratic", "social" and "Republic" could use linking. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:24, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
    • Is "proclaims" Simple?

 Done Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 18:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

  • Military
    • Is "National Rural Police" Simple?
 Done linked words. Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 18:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
    • "359,000 military personnel in France" - do you mean France has a manpower of 359,000? Presumably they are not all in France, e.g. some of them are abroad in warzones?
 Done Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 18:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
    • Is "defence budget" Simple?

Linked, done. Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 18:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

  • Foreign relations
    • Could use some citations in this section as there are precisely zero.
    • "It is permanent members.." It is a permanent member of ... perhaps?
 Done Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 18:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
    • "exclude the British" - Great Britain or UK?
United Kingdom. What word do you think I should use refer to the people from the UK? Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 18:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
    • " It wanted to build its own power in ..." power is a disambigation page... what do you actually mean by power here?
CEE was done at first for economic power. Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 18:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
It needs to be clear in the article - don't link to disambiguation pages. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:24, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
    • "France has got closer to Germany" - geographically? How, exactly...
In its relationship, since the war. Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 18:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
It's not clear, at least not to a Simple English speaker. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:24, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
    • "It consequently created rivalry the UK and limited the influence of newly inducted East European nations" - first part of the sentence doesn't make sense, and is "limited of the influence of newly inducted" Simple?

 Done Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 18:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

    • "France is a member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation...." put (NATO) afterwards.

 Done Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 18:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

    • Link de Gaulle.

 Done Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 18:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

    • Is "it excluded itself from the joint military command" Simple?
Changed to left. Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 18:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
    • "underground nuclear tests" - Nuclear is a disambiguation page.
linked. Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 18:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Economy, culture and references still to look at.... The Rambling Man (talk) 15:36, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
ould be nice if you got the rest, so I can fix to :). I also need to do the refs, but they'll come later. Also, I have asked a few questions on some of the points, as I wasn't sure, mind looking? Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 18:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Problems part II[change source]

  • Economy
    • "leading industrialised countries" is not Simple.

 Done Yottie =talk= 22:20, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

    • "France is ranked as the eighth largest economy in the world by Gross domestic product (GDP) adjusted for purchasing power parity which takes into account how much it costs to live in different countries and inflation rates." is a very long and quite complicated sentence. I don't think you need "adjusted for purchasing power parity" either, just the explanation following it.

 Done Yottie =talk= 22:20, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

    • "France and 11 other European Union members joined to launch..." joined what? Rephrase perhaps to "members jointly launched..."?

 Done Yottie =talk= 22:20, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

    • And that sentence needs a citation.

 Done Yottie =talk= 22:20, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

    • "nearly 2.9 million companies registered." - nearly 2.9 million registered companies would be better.
  •  Fixed
    • "The government has a considerable influence ..." prove it.

 Done Yottie =talk= 22:20, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

    • "France has an important aerospace..." according to whom?

 Done Yottie =talk= 22:20, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

    • "It can also launch space shuttles from French Guiana." - really? space shuttles? are you 100% sure? Not just rockets carrying satellites?

 Done Yottie =talk= 22:20, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

    • "France invested a lot .." France has...

 Done Yottie =talk= 22:20, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

    • "This made France the smallest producer of carbon dioxide among the seven most industrialized countries in the world." - prove it, and industrialised, not z, to keep this in British English, per the rest of the article.

 Done Yottie =talk= 22:20, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

    • "France is the leading agricultural producer and exporter in Europe. " prove it.

 Done Yottie =talk= 22:20, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

    • "France exports: Wheat, poultry, dairy products, beef and pork." write without the colon, nor the capitalised W for Wheat...

 Done Yottie =talk= 22:20, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

    • "$10 billion euros " is that dollars or euros?

 Done all issues in this section. Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 10:06, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

  • Culture
    • "French used to be the language of diplomacy and culture in Europe around 17th - 19th century." - prove it and I'd say "between the 17th and 19th Century".

 Done and century per MOS. Yottie =talk= 22:31, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

    • "French literature began in the Middle Ages." prove it - are you sure there was no French literature before that.

 Done Yottie =talk= 22:31, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

    • "Each writer used his own spelling and grammar." I don't believe this really... I think I know what you're saying but it isn't clear and I think this statement is probably misleading.

 Done Yottie =talk= 22:31, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

    • "During the 17th century Pierre Corneille, Jean Racine and Molière's plays and Blaise Pascal and René Descartes's books influenced the aristocracy. They also influenced future authors." prove it.

 Done Yottie =talk= 22:31, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

    • "French literature and poetry reach its highest point." what does "highest point" mean? Not clear to a Simple reader.
    • "Charles Perrault was probably the most famous writer." reads like original research to me.

 Done Yottie =talk= 22:31, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

    • "It is a 3 week " - three-week.  Done--Chenzw  Talk  14:34, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

 Done Yottie =talk= 22:31, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

    • center->centre (for that Brit Eng again)  Done--Chenzw  Talk  14:34, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
    • "24 Hours of Le Mans " should be linked.
    • " France hosted the Summer Olympics twice. In 1900 and in 1924 in Paris." that should be "...twice, in ..."  Done--Chenzw  Talk  14:34, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
    • "France is the first tourist destination in the world." some claim - prove it.
    • Too many images, clutters up the end of the article.
    • "They are in Paris, the capital of France. " repetitive. Just add "... both in Paris" to the end of the preceding sentence.  Done--Chenzw  Talk  14:34, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
  • References
    • I want to see accessdates on those references.
    • 8 external links is way over the top here. Pick the most significant couple.
       Fixed Pmlineditor  Talk 09:43, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

The Rambling Man (talk) 19:38, 11 May 2009 (UTC)  Done other problems. :) Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 10:40, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

French culture[change source]

I'd say this section needs special attention, over & above the comments by Rambling Man. As an unashamed fan of France (the country), I would expect to see sections on Art (painting, sculpture), Cuisine, Wine (how could you leave that out?). Section on language could certainly be improved. Political sections suffer from a lack of perspective; they tend to be lists of events without much interpretation. There's room for some reflection on the enormous consequencies of her involvement in the Napoleonic, Franco-German, and two world wars. Comparisons with differing political methods in neighbouring countries might help. There's no doubt France is a most distinctive country with its own style of life. That doesn't quite come over in the article at present. Macdonald-ross (talk) 10:45, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Good and constructive comments. Thank you ;) . Yotcmdr =talk to the commander= 16:14, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Art - Pictogram voting wait.svg Doing...
Cuisine -  Done
Wine - Pictogram voting wait.svg Doing...
Language - Not sure what to add. The main article is better.
Politics - Pictogram voting wait.svg Doing...
History - Pictogram voting wait.svg Doing... though not a great deal to add without having to go into greater detail.

Yottie =talk= 22:38, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Infobox[change source]

The infobox doen't seem to be working. 86.220.252.8 (talk) 09:56, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

 Fixed Pmlineditor  10:20, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Review[change source]

Hey Yots, a very well written article you proposed there, hmm? :p I found a few obvious flaws which you probably know and did not fix on purpose or because you didn't have enough time. Well, anyway, here goes!

  • ref 1 should be simplified or linked: words such as territories, excludes, suspended are all rather complex.

 Done linked Yottie =talk= 11:33, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

  • The websites in the section "Other Websites" should be done with a citeweb template.

 Done Yottie =talk= 12:49, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

  • The words "organisation" and "globalisation" should be simplified.

 Done linked. Yottie =talk= 11:42, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

  • "It created rivalry with the UK and limited the influence of the new Easten European members." Are you sure it's supposed to be Easten, not Eastern?

 Done Yottie =talk= 11:48, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

  • The word defense, should be linked at its first use (or, if I misread it and it's already linked first, then nevermind that one).

 Done Yottie =talk= 11:48, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

  • "Carolingian", "French Constitution", "EDF", "subsidies", and "24 Hours of Le Mans" are all red links. It would be nice if fixed. :)
  • In the section "Cuisine", actually there is no main article called "French cuisine", so it appears to be a useless template. It would be great if you could make the article or, if you can't, just take out the template.

 Done Yottie =talk= 11:53, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

  • "Bordeaux", "Burgundy", "Beaujolais", "banquets", "Choucroute", "Quiche", "Cassoulet", and "Tapenade" are all red links.

That's it so far, I review'd most of the article. I'll finish my review if I can find anything else to fix later, once these are all adressed - and I'll also try to fix them myself as well. :) Thank you, Belle tête-à-tête 06:39, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

GA review[change source]

  • The first para in the "Geography and climate" section is unsourced.

 Done Yottie =talk= 16:06, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

  • The History section has only one source.

 Done Yottie =talk= 22:21, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

  • The Foreign Relations section is unsourced.

 Done Yottie =talk= 17:28, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

  • "The country was where both WWI and WWII mainly took place." -> "...both the first and second world war took place"

 Done Yottie =talk= 16:06, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

  • "It says France is attached to the Rights of Man defined by the Declaration of 1789." <-- source? Also, why is it in italics?

 Done removed. Yottie =talk= 16:58, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

  • Don't use abbreviations like GDP the first time you use them.

 Done Yottie =talk= 16:52, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

  • "...and telecommunications firms (as it owns big companies like SNCF, EDF)" <-- If EDF is a redlink, at least tell us what is the function of the company.

 Done Yottie =talk= 16:52, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

  • "During the 17th century, Pierre Corneille, Jean Racine, Molière Blaise Pascal and René Descartes were the main authors." <-- source?

 Done Yottie =talk= 16:52, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

  • The Literature section needs sources (all three paragraphs)
  • Same with sports really "The Tour de France cycling race in July is one of the best-known sporting events", "France is also famous for its 24 Hours of Le Mans car race." <-- these need sources.
  • The main article in the cuisine section is redlinked. Remove it please.

 Done Yottie =talk= 16:52, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

  • It would be a good idea to create some of the redlinked articles in the Cuisine section
  • All references need publisher name, accessdate etc.
Along those lines, Ref 47 seems to be dead, and ref 48 is a bare url link. Could these two be fixed? :) Cordially, —Clementina talk 02:44, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

 Fixed ref 47 I-20the highway 21:51, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

That's it for now. I haven't reviewed the content yet. Cheers, Pmlineditor  09:53, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Some of my comments have been mentioned by the other reviewers btw. Pmlineditor  09:54, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Images[change source]

Hi. User:TeleComNasSprVen removed some images, as he thought they were cluttering up the pages (see history for exact wording). I disagree, and would like to revert this, but I would like another opinion on the subject. Thanks, Yottie =talk= 22:42, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Removing the useless satellite image and the cheese photo were good decisions. --MarsRover (talk) 23:11, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
I agree with his removals. In my opinion, there were just too many pictures scattered everywhere in the article, and not all of them were necessary in my opinion. Pmlineditor  13:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Incoherent statement on France's area[change source]

In the introduction of the article, it is stated that: "France is the largest country in the European Union and the second largest in Europe" However, if we only consider France's metropolitan (European) territories, then it is the third largest behind Ukraine and Russia. And if we consider France's overseas territories, then it is still the third largest as Denmark is bigger due to Greenland.