Talk:Hanami

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Defect[change source]

I think this page would not make VGA if presented today. However, I just want to say how distracting it is to have so many Japanese words in the text. We here can't read those words, so what is the point of them? At least they should be put in footnotes, not in the main text. We're called Simple English because, obviously, we can read English, if it is simple. We don't read Japanese at all. Macdonald-ross (talk) 12:43, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, this general comment is helpful. In the very specific context of this article, Macdonald-ross suggests questions which need to be answered on a sentence-by-sentence basis. For example,
A. In the "History" section, Emperor Saga (嵯峨天皇, Saga-tennō, 785–842) was changed to the linked name of the emperor here. When this sentence was written in 2007, we had no article about Saga. At that time, it was reasonable to add the kanji and romanization and his birth/death dates. When this kind of red link turns blue, there is a conventional simplifying process for what links here. However, this sentence was forgotten or it "slipped through the cracks".
B. In the "Today" section, one sentence about night viewing of cherry blossoms was made into an inline note here. In my opinion, this information is relevant; and it might be restored to the text at some point.
C. In the "Today" section, I removed one sentence from the last paragraph here:
  • "Dead bodies are buried under the cherry trees!" (桜の樹の下には屍体が埋まっている! Sakura no ki no shita ni wa shitai ga umatte iru!) is a popular saying about hanami, after the first line of the 1925 short story "Under the Cherry Trees" by Motojirō Kajii.<:ref>"Cyber Sakura Watching". Osaka Seikei University, Kyoto, Japan. Retrieved August 17, 2007. CS1 maint: discouraged parameter (link)</ref><:ref>Gessel, Van C. (1993). The Showa Anthology: Modern Japanese Short Stories. Kodansha International. ISBN 4-7700-1708-1. p. 24. Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)</ref>
In my opinion, the example is arguably relevant, but it is not simple. Perhaps the saying could be restored in some future version.
Isn't this a familiar process which plays out in Category:Japanese culture and Category:History of Japan. --Horeki (talk) 14:17, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

For whom is this article written?[change source]

I used a reading level utility (you will find it here: http://www.online-utility.org/english/readability_test_and_improve.jsp ) to measure the number of years of education needed to understand this modified version of the first paragraph from the article:

Hanami "flower viewing" is the traditional Japanese custom of enjoying the beauty of flowers, especially cherry blossoms. The practice of Hanami is more than a thousand years old, and is still very popular in Japan today. It takes place in the Spring. The blossoms only last for a week or two, usually from March to April. They are followed by the media. After a very brief time, the blooming peak is over, and then the blossoms begin to fall from the trees.

The utility returned the following:

  • Number of characters (without spaces) : 364.00
  • Number of words : 82.00
  • Number of sentences : 6.00
  • Average number of characters per word : 4.44
  • Average number of syllables per word : 1.59
  • Average number of words per sentence: 13.67
  • Indication of the number of years of formal education that a person requires in order to easily understand the text on the first reading
  • Gunning Fog index : 10.34
  • Approximate representation of the U.S. grade level needed to comprehend the text :
  • Coleman Liau index : 8.15
  • Flesch Kincaid Grade level : 8.45
  • ARI (Automated Readability Index) : 6.31
  • SMOG : 10.75
  • Flesch Reading Ease : 58.84

I rewrote the first paragraph as follows:

Hanami means "flower viewing". It is an old Japanese custom to view (look at) the beauty of flowers. The Japanese like best to view cherry blossoms. The custom of Hanami is more than a thousand years old. Even today, it is very popular in Japan. Hanami takes place in the Spring. The blossoms last only a week or two. The cherry trees blossom in March to April. The blossoms do not stay fresh very long. After a little time, the blooming is over. Then the blossoms to fall from the trees.

When the utility was used it returned the following:

  • Number of characters (without spaces) : 382.00
  • Number of words : 91.00
  • Number of sentences : 11.00
  • Average number of characters per word : 4.20
  • Average number of syllables per word : 1.45
  • Average number of words per sentence: 8.27
  • Indication of the number of years of formal education that a person requires in order to easily understand the text on the first reading
  • Gunning Fog index : 6.83
  • Approximate representation of the U.S. grade level needed to comprehend the text :
  • Coleman Liau index : 5.30
  • Flesch Kincaid Grade level : 4.75
  • ARI (Automated Readability Index) : 2.48
  • SMOG : 7.67
  • Flesch Reading Ease : 75.72


So, my question is: For whom are we writing? If the Simple Encyclopedia is to be written for children and those who are learning English, then perhaps it should be written for those at level of four years of education. If the purpose is to educate, then the Gunning Fog Index would be appropriate as the reader can understand the text on the first read, hence there is not much challenge and not much learning is taking place.

If education of those at four years level is the goal then perhaps the Flesch Kincaid Grade Level should return four or five years. At present it returns 8.4 years. With the changes I made, it returns 4.75 years.

At present, the introductory paragraph is over written. Zedshort (talk) 16:54, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Page demotion[change source]

This page was demoted as a VGA on 20 March 2018, folllowing concerns and discussions that it no longer met the standards. Recommend some changes be made, and the article resubmitted for GA discussion. --Peterdownunder (talk) 11:35, 20 March 2018 (UTC)