Talk:Kounu

@Haoreima: Does "abode" mean something other than "home"? If so, an explanation and a dedicated article (not necessarily written by you; just need to know) might be best. Check out some of the simplifications I did here: [1] Don't be afraid to do more than just a hard-word-for-easy-word swap. Feel free to change sentences around. "Her abode is..." can be "She lives at/in/on..." Darkfrog24 (talk) 18:14, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24: No. By "abode", I exactly mean the "home". Haoreima (talk) 03:25, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

@Haoreima: Took another look: "believe that if the annual rainfall is of bit by bit frequency" does not make sense. 1) "Bit by bit frequency" does not make sense. 2) "Annual rainfall" means "the rain that falls every year." So it's not clear if the article means whether the rainfall is bit-by-bit within one year or across many years. Darkfrog24 (talk) 22:19, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24: I don't know the exact english term for annual rainfall which is neither too heavy nor too light. Falling little by little bit by bit but frequently. In Meitei dictionary, it's like this. With which word shall we replace? Haoreima (talk) 00:59, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

There are a few English words that would work. Is this kind of rain good or bad?

This article has a lot of issues. The big one is that it's mostly story. The plot is too detailed. It makes it hard for the reader to tell which parts are important. Darkfrog24 (talk) 01:04, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24: Crops yielded are good in such rain. Haoreima (talk) 01:45, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Then just say "good rain." I think the main problem with this article is that there is way too much detail. Darkfrog24 (talk) 03:00, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24: Could you suggest me some ways to overcome this situation? Because for me, I am not handy. For me, while simplification, I split complex sentences into many simple sentences, which led the article looks longer. Haoreima (talk) 03:07, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

The problem is not that it is long. The problem is that it is long and does not make sense because the important parts of the story are not given more focus than unimportant parts of the story. I've never read the original, so I don't know which are which.

If I were trying to summarize the beginning of Pride and Prejudice I wouldn't say "Elizabeth went to the town dance. She talked to Charlotte. Darcy talked to Bingley. Darcy talked to Bingley in front of Elizabeth. Elizabeth talked to Charlotte." I would say "At the town dance, Darcy only talked to his own friends. When Bingley asked him if he wanted to dance with Elizabeth, Darcy said Elizabeth was not good-looking enough. This made Elizabeth think Darcy was too proud." Now you can tell what the important part is, right? The book starts with Darcy being rude to Elizabeth, and her thinking "He has too much pride." That's what the whole book is about!

Lemme try something...

On the next day's twilight, does it matter that it was twilight? Is that important? goddesses brought the fruits and gifts at Kounu's abode. Male gods also came in a possession with God Koubru. When the gods checked out the collection, they found heikru (Indian gooseberry) and Heining fruit missing. Does it matter which fruits were missing? Is that important? Some gods got angry at such missing of the prepared things. Does it matter that Koubru's friends were angry? Why are they angry? Because the woman will say no? Because they think the goddesses were careless? What's going on? And does it matter? Goddess Kounu told God Koubru that she couldn't marry him. God Koubru replied to goddess Kounu that she will soon have a daughter as a result of their union in the past meeting. Hearing that, other gods got angry.[9] They got angry at goddess Kounu because of her excessively reserved marriage proposal conditions while she was already conceived. They cursed that her daughter will be born on a stone slab in her next incarnation. The goddesses were about to curse that her baby will turn into a flower just at the birth. But they did not because of the gods' former curse. Does it matter that there were going to be two curses? Is that important At this, Kounu was embarrassed. She also cursed that all the gifts to be turned into stones on the next day. Soon, the sun rose up. So, as she said, all the gifts turned into stones. The gods and goddesses left the place. Is it important to say that they left? Why say it?

See? I'd write this as, "Female goddesses brought the fruit and other wedding gifts to Kounu's home. The male gods came with Koubru. But there were two fruits missing, so Kounu said she would not marry Koubru. Koubru was angry and told her she would have a daughter because she'd gotten pregnant the last time they'd met. Then the other male gods got angry because Kounu. They put a curse on Kounu's baby, saying she would be born on a stone slab. The goddesses were going to curse the baby too, but they thought Kounu had been punished enough (Did they? I'm just guessing.)

There should be less about the literal what of what happened and more of why it was important. For example, I wouldn't say which fruits were missing unless those two fruits show up again later in the story in some way. Remember, it's not Simple's job to repeat the myth exactly or provide every detail. It's Simple's job to give the encyclopedia version. Darkfrog24 (talk) 03:32, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

So Kounu refuses to marry Koubru, but two sections down, they're a couple? And Kounu's cursed to have her daughter on a stone slap, but that's the mortal daughter who lives and dies, and it's the next one who's on a stone slab, and she's adopted? Yeah, this doesn't make sense. There are lots of old myths that don't make sense. The Tain bo Cuailnge has some pretty huge plotholes, but any article about a myth with plot holes should acknowledge that they are there. Darkfrog24 (talk) 03:37, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24: Yes, it's important to be the twilight because in the later part of the story, goddess Kounu curse that all the gifts should be turned into stone with the sunrise.

Regarding fruits, it plays less significance but the scripture mentions the two names of the fruits particularly. Ok, this one can be removed.

It matters that Koubru's male friends were angry because of two reasons:- (A) first anger:- the goddesses (caretakers of the fruits) were careless. And according to the conditions, Goddess Kounu will not marry God Koubru if even one type of fruit is missed. She wants all types of fruits to be present. (B) second anger:- Kounu was already pregnant with Koubru's child but she imposed highly difficult task for the marriage and even rejected the marriage proposal at a small mistake of the gods. Seems she was a true virgin but her true nature was exposed.

There were two curses (1) their baby girl should be born on stone slab in her next incarnation (not in that incarnation). And as per that curse, the baby was born normally in that incarnation but on the stone slab in the next incarnation. (2) In return to the former curse and a retreat of her humiliation, Kounu gave the later curse (turning the precious gifts into stone).

Lastly, it's not important to say they left. Ok, this one can be removed.

Yes, the goddesses didn't curse because male gods have already given her harsh enough curse.

They became couples in later section of their lives. Well, this seems interpolation of the mythology. To avoid confusion, we can use "partner" instead of "couple" (Partner/Couple scenario is quite common in Hollywood film stars too. Just an example). Btw, they lived together in later times. It's true according to the story of Kounu talking to her son Loyalakpa. (This story is also included in this article)

Kounu gave a normal birth to her mortal baby. But in the next incarnation of the girl, she was born (not a normal birth but a transformation of goddess Leimarel Sidabi) on a stone slab. The girl will become Kounu's daughter when she adopted her.

Some storyline seems not to make sense but afterall it's a mythology. Well, how shall we proceed further? Haoreima (talk) 04:08, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Say much less. Darkfrog24 (talk) 13:45, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24: I don't understand. Please explain me elaborately? Haoreima (talk) 13:46, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

These changes you made are pretty good. They make the English much simpler. But the plot is still overly detailed. That's my opinion. Darkfrog24 (talk) 13:48, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24: It will be easier for me to carry on the task if you pinpoint me those things once again. As for me, I have summarised at my maximum level. If you suggest me, I will shorten it again. Haoreima (talk) 13:54, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

So I guess what I'm saying is that the way it's written is bette,r but there's too much of it. It's not about pinpointing. Darkfrog24 (talk) 14:07, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

You know the Odyssey, right? "After the Greeks won the Trojan War, they all got on their ships to go home. Odysseus wanted to go back to his island, Ithaca, because he missed his wife and son. But he was so proud and arrogant from his victory at Troy that he behaved very badly on the way. He and his men destroyed a temple that belonged to people who were not their enemies. Then they fought with and blinded a cyclops, a giant with one eye, who was the son of the powerful sea god Poseidon. The cyclops asked Poseidon to make Odysseus' journey home slow and dangerous. After that, Odysseus and his crew had to escape monsters, the sorceress Circe, and even visit the land of the dead. Meanwhile, back at Ithaca, Odysseus' son Telemachus was growing. Unlike Odysseus, who was too proud, Telemachus was too careful. The goddess Athena sent him on his own adventures, where he learned to be braver. Eventually, only Odysseus made it all the way to Ithaca, where he found his home full of enemies. They were men who wanted to marry Odysseus' wife, Penelope, and take his place as king of Ithaca. But Odysseus' long journey had taught him wisdom and patiences. He and Telemachus, outsmarted the enemies and Odysseus rejoined his kingdom and family." There. That's the whole story summarized in one paragraph. I could go even shorter: "The Odyssey is about a man from the Trojan War, Odysseus, who has a difficult voyage home. He faces monsters, sorceresses, vengeful gods, and a trip to the land of the dead. On the way, he overcomes his personal flaws and makes it back to his kingdom and family." Darkfrog24 (talk) 14:21, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24: I understand but at the same time, I have read the English Wikipedia article Odyssey also. There, they aren't too short like the way you have shortened. :-) :-) If I shortened into 1 or 2 sentences in this article too, then I fear if the important things which we want to share with the readers might get missed. :-) :-) I know this because once I compared the length of the plot of English Wikipedia article Odyssey with the plot of the Khamba Thoibi epic in my User:Haoreima/Folklore. I found these two plots not much different regarding length. So, I thought simplification is the only thing that should be done. :-) Haoreima (talk) 15:30, 4 March 2022 (UTC)