Talk:Separatism
Zionism[change source]
Eptalon, how, exactly, is Zionism separatist? I guess I don't see that. StevenJ81 (talk) 20:57, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
- Zionism is/was the idea to create a Jewish state in what was the British Mandate of Palestine. This is clearly separatist, as the supposed state is based on religion (and does not include the Arabs and Christians that also live in the region). What isn't separatist in an idea to create a new entity/state in a place where there already is another, and which does not include the whole population? --Eptalon (talk) 18:16, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
- Let's keep facts straight. In its original incarnation, the early Zionist fathers, and the early Zionist pioneers, weren't looking to exclude anyone. They were looking for a place where Jews could settle freely, which was an option frankly not available in many places (any places?) at the time.
- Read Mark Twain, Innocents Abroad, written just before the modern Jewish migration wave began. There wasn't a huge non-Jewish population in place at the time, anyway. Immigrating Jews were looking to build up the land, not throw out current residents.
- It's arguable that there wasn't really even a viable state at that time and place. The Mandate was not really a state, it was an interim solution.
- I won't argue the Israel War of Independence, nor the current state of affairs, here and now. I would simply note that in the mainstream point of view, any current separatism is post facto and defensive, not a priori and exclusionary. (There are, of course, separatists out there, but that's a separate topic.) StevenJ81 (talk) 18:38, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
- Let's keep facts straight. In its original incarnation, the early Zionist fathers, and the early Zionist pioneers, weren't looking to exclude anyone. They were looking for a place where Jews could settle freely, which was an option frankly not available in many places (any places?) at the time.
What about how Macdonald-ross has structured it now? Except maybe replace the reference to Zionism with a (red) link to either the Arab-Israeli War or the Partition plan for Palestine? That would match the India example. I think there are other religious-based examples that are probably a bit more clear-cut, though, like Uyghurstan in China, Mindanao in the Philippines... Osiris (talk) 06:09, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
- I can live with that, Zionism replaced by Partition plan for the British Mandate of Palestine. I think I'd like the whole article ordered according to the sentence in the lead, though: "culture, ethnicity, religion, race." I might get at that when I actually get up for the day. StevenJ81 (talk) 08:59, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
Done Someone needs to find a "culture" example, though. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:50, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
non-schisms[change source]
If by separatism is meant schism (religion), then neither the partition of British India nor the creation of Israel is an example. Schism is the splitting of a once unified religious group into two or more groups on the basis of differing beliefs or practices. It happens to almost all religious groups and many cults. Macdonald-ross (talk) 17:51, 31 July 2013 (UTC)