Wikipedia:Simple talk/Archive 27

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Vandal Warning Gadget

We should add a page creation warning button to the Vandal Warner gadget. SwirlBoy39 (talk) 04:41, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

You can suggest the wording, and I will do the coding part. - Huji reply 15:59, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
The button should be called "Test article" a box will pop up saying which page was created and the code will be the test article warning. SwirlBoy39 20:23, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

(unindenting) I would also like to congratulate Huji for making the gadget, because without it, I cannot be complete :) Razorflame 20:55, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree! SwirlBoy39 21:27, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. SwirlBoy, by what I said, I meant, you should provide the "text" of the warning that finally appears on the vandal's talk page. - Huji reply 21:33, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
See Template:testarticle. Does that help? SwirlBoy39 21:39, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 Done - Huji reply 22:01, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Using schools-wikipedia-small offline

I am new user downloaded the above (890 990kbs) for use on a home PC off line, what application is required to run or does it contain an installation file?Kamasi (talk) 05:15, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Schools-Wikipedia is a part of the English Wikipedia's Version 0.5 project. More information should be available through the talk page there. Basically it seems all you should need is the off-line reader KiwiX to access the files (the link can be found at the en:wikipedia Version 0.5 page or a google search). I am not entirely certain of this though and have brought up the subject of installation and use on the 0.5 talk page. Hopefully someone there will be able to more fully answer your questions. -- Creol(talk) 07:22, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Administrator

What do you have to do to become an admimistrator? Does WP staff choose or do other Wikipedians choose who should become admin? —This unsigned comment was added by 58.168.191.52 (talkchanges) 07:37, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Firstly, you must have an account. IPs cannot be administrators. After that, you must meet the requirements listed here. Once you meet them, you can nominate yourself or wait for others to nominate you. Wikipedians will then vote. Chenzw (talkchanges) 08:55, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedians vote in a RFA. SwirlBoy39 14:10, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Reorganising buildings and structures..

Hello all,

I have introduced Category:Buildings and structures by geographical location and Category:Buildings and structures by era of construction. Big question: A castle is a concept very much in the mind of the Middle Ages; the first hill-forts are pre-historic (and also classified as some kind of castles).

Just thoughts though. --Eptalon (talk) 12:48, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Solved; made Castles a subcat of Fortifications (a subcat of B&Ss). --Eptalon (talk) 13:32, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Ella Koon

The page for Ella Koon was created, but the person who created the page wrote the entire article in Chinese. I have done some translations, but have not yet finished. Can anyone, who is fluent in Chinese, help me in finishing translating the page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexhl (talkcontribs)

Article Creations

I created all these articles listed so why does my log show I only made 2 and no mainspace? SwirlBoy39 14:29, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't show all the articles you have created, just recent ones. Oysterguitarist 15:44, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
OK. Thanks SwirlBoy39 15:51, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

HotCat currently not working..

Hello HotCat.js is currently not working (if enabled in the Gadgets); this may be related to the MediaWiki version as pointed out above --Eptalon (talk) 16:40, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

I think I may have fixed it, I took a hot cat script from en and replaced it with ours, so hopefully it works again. Oysterguitarist 17:20, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
Seems to work; minor problem, cats are added at the bottom of the article; we currently have them before the iws though. --Eptalon (talk) 19:03, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
HotCat has always added them at the bottom, that's one reason Tygrrr decided not to use it, and why I run AWB on what I have been editing every so often--Bärliner 19:21, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Question:

Just a question:

How many statements on User talk:Inkpen2 are irrevelent to the block appeal. In particlual, the statement "Ben is 17. If that answers your question about what stage nof adolesence he is in. He had his birthday about 3 weeks ago. His party was megafun.", in particular the last 2 sentances, have no point. -- Da Punk '95 (talk) 20:11, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Human issues

Hello,

while working on the Category:Human issues, i noticed the following "theme complexes"

  • Migration
  • Sexual revolution/Hippie movement
  • Abortion/Birth control
  • "Misguided" sexual orientation (Westboro Baptist church)

I personally do not feel these (and a few others, possibly in subcats) do ont belong here; I would therefore invite all to participate and clean up these things. --Eptalon (talk) 20:54, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

World War I GA

Hi all! I just wanted to ask what you think about this article becoming a GA in the future. It obviously needs some references, which I am tackling, but I just wanted to ask if some other people can help me find some references for this article. I will use the regular English Wikipedia to help me find some references, but I still think that they could use more.

The article, of course, needs a complete copyedit (which is what I am currently doing), and after I am done copyediting it, I would be glad if some other editors would be good enough to look over it again to make sure that I didn't miss anything.

Do you think that this article has the qualities needed to become a GA? Razorflame 18:50, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

In direct comment to my earlier comment, whilst I was copyediting and adding stuff and removing stuff from this article, it created several new red links that are increasingly important to this topic:

These four articles will need to be created in order for this article to become a good article. I also have to say that there is a lot more to be said in each of the sections, so I would like to implore every active experienced user to help get this article up to GA standards. There is just too much for a single perosn to do with this article to make it better.

I will post a list of things that need to be done shortly after I post this post. Razorflame 19:20, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

List of things to do

  1. Create the redlinks mentioned above.
  2. Add information as is deemed relevant to the article; in short, fatten up the sections
  3. Get more references to this article; the English Wikipedia version has 109 references and between 30 and 40 books cited.
  4. More images would be nice.
  5. Copyediting after the first couple of sections.

These are the list of things that are the most pressing for this article. I would like to thank you all for your help in getting this article up to speed! Razorflame 19:22, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

What has been done

Navigation Popups

I have navigation popups gadget enabled but how do I revert an edit using it? SwirlBoy39 22:17, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

You point to a diff or a link a revision, and then click the link the revert the edit. If you are pointing to a diff and click on the revert link, it will revert that edit. If you are pointing to a revision and click on the revert link, it will revert to that revision.-- Lights  talk  22:20, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Infobox Settlement and pushpin maps

For some reasons, when I use Infobox Settlement the pushpin map doesn't show (you can see a case in User:Jmarcano/Sandbox) but there is not problem with the same code in English Wikipedia. Is there any difference between the Simple Settlement and the English Settlement? I have seen that the map doesn't show in Haskovo, either. Can anybody help? --Jmarcano (talk) 14:35, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

I have put another code without Infobox Settlement but calling the Template Location map directly. As you can see, the problem seems to be with Infobox Settlement. --Jmarcano (talk) 00:27, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Fixed. It was another problem with the recent mediawiki upgrade. Many templates have this issue. Most were fixed but problems keep popping up.-- Creol(talk) 00:37, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Aincent Egypt Religion

I have moved a page here. The old title was too complex. If anyone contradicts me, please revert me. -- Da Punk '95 (talk) 05:08, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Please don't move anything to any place that you don't know how to spell! The spelling of the title of an article needs to be checked and double checked. The link that you have given here also doesn't work, because the words are reversed and a word is left out. You moved the page to Religion of XAincentX Egypt. It can now be found at Religion of Ancient Egypt.
Amandajm (talk) 05:47, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Nice try! It was moved to Religion of Aincent Egypt :) -- Da Punk '95 (talk) 19:16, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Reverted change of section head by Da Punk '95 so that the comments of Amandajm stay in context. --Bärliner 11:37, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Votes for a new checkuser

Currently Vector is running for checkuser access on WP:RFA. So far about a week has passed since he nominated himself for checkuser but only received 3 supports and opposes, compared to the 25-30 votes required for a successful RfCheckuser access. Perviously, Tygrrr has been nominated by Razorflame but has declined the nomination to replace M7. So right now we have not been giving any attention for a new checkuser or electing one. --§ Snake311 (I'm Not Okay!) 22:39, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Copying Main English Wikipedia Wikipedia:Multi-licensing to this Wikipedia

Should I create Wikipedia:Multi-licensing by copying the Main English Wikipedia Wikipedia:Multi-licensing to this Wikipedia?--Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 23:40, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Generally, even in the Wikipedia namespace, you should simplify it a bit before saving it. --Isis(talk) 23:59, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
I don't know how good I would be at simplifying, and I am afraid that if I try I would mess-up the article.--Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 00:13, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Should I use a slightly changed Wikipedia:Multi-licensing with Template:complex added--Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 01:25, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
That should not be a problem, as other editors can help simplify it. Just be sure to add the "complex" template to it. --Isis(talk) 02:19, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
OK, thanks Isis I'll do that.--Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 02:28, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Vandal Warner broken

Since yesterday, I have been unable to warn vandals with the gadget. The links in the toolbox are there, but there is no response! Anyone with the same problem as me? Chenzw (talkchanges) 07:22, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

I noticed the gadget acting strange yesterday. Sometimes it would work and sometimes it wouldn't. I thought maybe it was my antivirus program because it gives me a warning every time I try to use it. --From-cary (talk) 07:49, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Please purge your browser's cache to make sure you're using the latest version of Vandal Wanrer. After that, if you noticed the bug again, please report it on Wikipedia_talk:Gadget/Vandal Warner. Don't forget to mention the page on which Vandal Warner couldn't work, and the browser you're using. - Huji reply 07:59, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
I have tried the gadget in Firefox and in Internet Explorer and it does not work in either one. The window pops up and then it lets you type in the name of the article in question, but then it freezes and won't do anything. --From-cary (talk) 16:16, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Same for me. I have also cleared the cache. Chenzw (talkchanges) 06:50, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
Are you getting any errors in your error console? Oysterguitarist 15:01, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I have one: document.editform has no properties. Chenzw (talkchanges) 07:21, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
The gadget doesnt use editform. According to your monobook.js file, you are still using Pilotguys's whackamole.js. which does use editform. You should remove the whackamole section from your .js, clear the cache and try the gadget again. Conflicts between the two can be causing problems. -- Creol(talk) 19:03, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Simple English ads

Should we create a template on Wikipedia about Simple English Wikipedia so we get more users, articles and admins (I'm not saying I am one) and Simple English Wikipedia will be good as the normal English one? Put it on some project pages only. Create it here Claimgoal 3:48 PM, 16 March 2008 (AEDT)

Hello, our active community is somewhere between 30 and 50 people (regular, high-volume editors). Most of them are admins. Most of them have a European or US background. In order to get more varied views, I therefore think we should not turn to the English-language Wikipedia, but rather look for editors in other wikipedias. In theory, we use Simple English, how many people of the Arabian-language Wikipedia, how many of the Russian, Korean, Chinese, Japanese are able to contribute with at least a basic level of English? - What about some African languages (I don't know). Advertising on Spanish and Portuguese might get us editors from South America. Why should we fix ourselves on the English language WP? --Eptalon (talk) 11:37, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, we could use editors from Wikipedia to create articles in Simple English. And your idea has just one problem. I don't know how to write in foreign languages but maybe I could use Google Translator! Claimgoal 3:19 PM, 17 March 2008 (AEDT)
Translators do not work at all! My spanish teacher wrote a recipe saying "Bake a recipe" and translated it said "Bake a prescription!" I thought it was funny, but it doesn't work. SwirlBoy39 01:30, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Then we will have to find an editor here with at least level 3 fluency in the language. I can help with Chinese. Chenzw (talkchanges) 01:49, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
I can help in translating to Chinese & Japanese. Alexhl (talk) 09:09, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
I think we should put those ads on all Wikipedias except maybe English Wikipedia, because native speakers might not know how "simple" the language of SEWP must be, as SEWP is mainly for those who have English as their second language.

Do you think that there are may people from Chinese language Wikipedia that are able to contribute, say with a level 2 (intermediate) level of (Simple) English? - What we need are editors who contribute a lot, and who ideally do not come from an European or US background. If so, go ahead; I am personally glad for every additional editor we have. --Eptalon (talk) 18:15, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Has anyone done it yet? Claimgoal 00:34, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I am a Chinese and can contribute at an almost native-level level in English. Alexhl (talk) 09:00, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm in favour of advertising on Wikipedia. Several of our regular contributors are early to mid teens. It encourages me to think that we might collect more child users if we were to advertise on Wikipedia.
I also find the statement that native speakers of English might not know how "simple" simple English should be, to be unrealistic. There are many native English speaking people who, like myself, have skills at teaching English as a second language, writing English for migrants, and writing English for children. We mustn't forget that English children's books are nearly all written by native speakers, something that they seem to do quite expertly.
As a native speaker of English, I find myself frequently tidying up sentences on Simple English Wiki that are bad English. There are several typical types of errors: Grammar, word order, convoluted expression and lack of knowledge of idiomatic English.
A typical example that I corrected today is "Something is different than so-and-so". It should read "Something is different to so-and-so."
I don't want to sound as if I am trying to discourage the contributions made by non-native speaking people. I think that their work is invaluable to this website, not only for the contributions made but also as a check on the clarity of English used by native English speakers. One of the problems that the native speakers have is that in searching for simplicity, they often resort to short words with multiple meanings. I recall one poor migrant man (ahead of me in a queue) who was told by the cashier at the gas company that his cheque had "bounced". She shouted it at him three times as if he was deaf. Finally I said "Excuse me sir, your bank account had insufficient funds to cover the transaction, so the cheque was returned by the bank. Your gas account is now in arrears and the supply will be disconnected if you don't pay immediately." As a European migrant, he was able to understand accurate English at an advanced level, but not colloquial Australian English. After he had payed up and gone, the woman said to me, "What was that stupid man's problem? I told him his cheque had bounced!"
On the other hand, I for, one would be extremely pleased if we could encourage far more people who write good clear correct English to come to this page, if only to make corrections of the type that I am talking about.
Case in point. I have just been looking at the Pre-history page. Some un-named editor began that page and wrote a couple of paragraphs. Since that time, six, named, signed-in editors have done some work on the page, including adding a "disputed" banner. On that short page of no more than a dozen sentences, there were two glaring errors. Two of the sentences had no capital letter. But six people made changes to the page without bothering to fix it! If, as a regular contributor, you edit a page and leave very obvious errors uncorrected, then it does nothing to improve the credibilty of Simple English Wikipedia, which has already suffered bad press.
The base line is, if we set ourselves up as purveyors of information, and call ourselves an encyclopedia, then there is a real obligation to provide that information as accurately as possible. We need editors who love information, love sharing it, and are prepared to do the solid work of research to make sure their facts are correct.
The reason why Wikipedia works as well as it does is that a lot of the people there are perfectionists. There are editors who simply cruise around fixing spelling and grammmar. There are people who chase after me removving my dreaded double letters. and fixing my "i before e except after c"s. There are other people who do nothing at all except slap "citation needed" tags on things. (Something that I find positvely cowardly. It is one thing to slap a dozen tags on an article and another to search for the refences) There are other people who just come along and say "I've read that article, and now I'm going to track down citations." (Don't you love them!)
I suspect that in Wikipedia articles about rock bands and computer games, people might get away with far more bad grammmar than elswhere, but if you write on history, literature or art, and make mistakes, someone is bound to correct it. Moreover, the competition for "Featured articles" is fierce and some of the assessors are ruthless. For that reason, people who write articles or greatly expand them, then call in someone else who has expertise in the subject to check it over. And if you happen to know a good copy editor, you call them in too, just to correct grammmar etc. Simple English Wikipedia would really benefit if we had an enthusiastic copy editor.
More on the subject of non-native speakers. One of my frequent contributions to the regular wikipedia page has been to assist non-native speakers on articles that they have written in English, or translated from their own language to English. However, for this sort of collaboration to be successful, the non-native speaker needs to recognise that, however good their factual contribution might be, their English is likely to be imperfect (in the ways that I pointed out above).
My final comment is that non-English speaking people can often find information in their own language, and read it easily once they have found it. I want to emphasise that I think we need to gear this to early teens and older children. A reading age of 11 to 13 years is a desirable target. And hopefully, the articles will also be a help to many migrant students who are battling to find easily-readable info in English.

Amandajm (talk) 11:39, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Pictures of stuff

Some pictures used on en.wiki would be unnaccepted and deleted on commons as they would not accept a representation picture (company logos, screenshots of games etc. anything of printable art made by a company). Some of these pictures are in use on en.wiki they can be uploaded there via the 'upload file' button. How can I upload a screenshot or logo here (for use on relevent article)? ~ R.T.G 00:28, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

You can't upload image here, see Wikipedia:Image use policy. Oysterguitarist(talk) 00:42, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

QD Templates

I think we should format the QD templates like the nice CSD (QD) templates at EN. What do you think? SwirlBoy39 13:42, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree, I've found the template for all EN Templates, their --  Da Punk '95  talk  22:41, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Personally, I would rather us keep the Quick Deletion system that we have. I like that our QD system is completely different from the English Wikipedia's version and I am quite happy with it. I would rather that not change right now because I have already learned to use our system of quick deletion and I would rather it not change. Cheers, Razorflame 15:05, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Wikibreak

I would like to let everyone here know that I am going on a Wikibreak and I won't be back until the 31st of March, so I would like to say that I will not be around to help out Wikipedia much until then. Thanks, Razorflame 21:15, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

I would now like to say that I have come back early because I feel like you guys are my second family :) Razorflame 22:30, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Aww :) --Gwib -(talk)- 08:47, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Bio

Isn't there a template where it is basically a bio temp where you can write about yourself? SwirlBoy39 01:35, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't think so. Claimgoal 00:37, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Spreading the Love

I don't know if this is a new feature or I'm just behind all of you, but recently I found in my settings a Unified Login option. This "unifies" all over-wiki accounts such as your accounts on En Wiki and Commons.

Just go to your settings and about halfway down you'll see "Global account status". Just follow the instructions from there to link up all your accounts! It's rather like an interwiki linking for users and I think is rather useful. --Gwib -(talk)- 20:53, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Yep, this was enabled the other day. It's currently only available for admins though. Majorly (talk) 21:07, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
That would explain why I couldnt find it the other day when I was looking on Meta.. Now I just have to get my French WP account Usurped for it to finish. Seems I forgot to confirm the Email and the password is none of my standard ones. -- Creol(talk) 23:55, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Unified all my accounts, it's really cool being able to log in anywhere. I think this means we have to stop renaming people due to foreign character usernames now. Archer7 - talk 09:50, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
I need someone to rename my empersonater on en.wikiquote then I'll be done. Oysterguitarist 16:11, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
I might file a RfA to get it. APRIL FOOLS!!! -- Da Punk '95 (talk) 21:04, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Cecilia Cheung

Is the "personal life" section really needed? I'm planning on deleting that entire section. Okay? Alexhl (talk) 08:55, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

The extensive past dating history could likely go, but the basics on her family (husband/child) should probably stay although that shouldn't take more than a couple sentences to get all the facts listed. Also, the photos scandal section should definitely stay as it is a highly notable event in her life and career. -- Creol(talk) 12:03, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

5566 albums

Could anyone help me with 5566 (band)? I think the discography section is better off having a "Language" column for the albums as the band has sung in not only Mandarin & English but also Min Nan and a little French. I don't know how to use Wikipedia code to make tables, so could anyone do this for me? Thanks. Alexhl (talk) 10:42, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Rather than add an entire column which would compress other columns on the table, I super-scripted notes and added the legend at the bottom corresponding to the languages listed on each album in the table. -- Creol(talk) 11:57, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

enwp copyright issues

As we tend to get a lot of copyright complaints on articles based on En:wp pages and the entire matter is a bit of a grey area, I created the template {{Enwp based}} to be placed on the talk pages of articles that are created based on simplified versions of En:wp pages. The template requires the complete address of the version used as the basis for the article (and will tell you if you don't include the url) while providing a link to the version itself and informing the reader of the available history of the article. This should completely cover the reference back/history requirements under the GFDL. -- Creol(talk) 22:44, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Looks good. Would be only worth it if people who created these articles actually remember to add this/or know about it. Majorly (talk) 22:54, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
So true, and unfortunately due to conflicts with the AGF policy and my pointy sticks, we can pretty much rule out using the sticks to help enforce its usages. Informing is mainly the reason I posted it here. At least now I know one person other than me knows it exists. Double the knowledge!! At least now when someone complains about copyrights infringement we can just search for the version and pop on a quick tag to clean it up. -- Creol(talk) 23:02, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
There are a few untagged at the moment. Talk:Flinders Street Station says The content of this page is based off the article on this topic off the English Wikipedia, and is either derative or a direct copy. The page was copied by Spiderpig0001., so that must be from EN. --  Da Punk '95  talk  23:10, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Would be nice if there were a bot for it, but I'll use it from now on. --Cethegus (talk) 17:39, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Native English speakers..

Hello all,

I am a non-native speaker of English. My English is probably near that of a native. At times I wonder how quickly the English language changes. This is especially apparent in those verb/pronoun combos (called phrasal verb). People from different backgrounds will use the language differently. A migrant worker (who has spent his life laying bricks) will have a comletely different language use to the academic who found out he needs to learn English, because there are few scientific publications in te Kazach language in his field of study. I therefore think the most important points when writing articles are:

  • Use short sentences.
  • Whenever possible avoid words with different meanings or words that are relatively new with this meaning.
  • Use clear but correct English.
  • If it is necessary, use another sentence to quickly explain what you mean with different words.
  • Still you are not getting proper words then use "thefreedictionary.com"

In the hope the meaning gets across. --Eptalon (talk) 11:58, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Part 1 - Part 2 - Part 3 - Part 4 - Follow-up
On a somewhat related topic, I came across this article yesterday and found it to be quite interesting. It is a 4-part series on using Simple English Wikipedia to teach ESL or even EFL (English as your first language). It also has sections on how to write Simple English articles, including how to write while considering your audience.
One thing in particular that struck me as quite true was the author's comment: "There is a How to write Simple English articles page, but, at the time of writing, it seems to be more for native English speakers trying to write Simple English." This strikes me as a weakness. We probably checked this page out when we first got here, but have likely given it little thought since then. We should ask ourselves--how helpful is it really?
I think we should try to make the "How to" page better. The author of the above article didn't find it to be helpful in October of 2007, and there have been only three changes to it since then. · Tygrrr... 14:11, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm just wondering, I've heard that in some other non-English speaking countries people don't really use metaphors and similes and other metaphorical language. Is this true? If so, I think metaphors should be avoided. Even saying things like..."many people said he was a cold, hard man." - because he isn't really, literally, cold and hard. Use of such figures of speech could be very confusing when learning ESL. --Isis(talk) 00:07, 3 April 2008 (UTC)