Category talk:Slaves
Name change[change source]
We could think about renaming this "Enslaved people." This is an idea that is moving forward in education in the United States. Calling people "slaves," a noun, gives the idea that it is something natural about them. Calling then "enslaved," an adjective, shows that slavery is a thing that happened to them. Darkfrog24 (talk) 03:01, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
- I really, don't know; some time ago, people abolished slavery, there are no slaves left. The last "official" slaves probably died in the first 30 years of the 20th century. This is just a play on words, however. If you have a carpet (that's not an industrially woven carped from some larg supermarket), it is likely that adolescent boys/girls helped produce it, under working conditions that are probably atrocious. No, they can't be replaced by adults, because adults have hands that are too large for the small knots. Simliarly: When you see a cheap set of trousers, it is likely it will have been produced in a sweatshop. Different place, different product, working conditions probably similar. (other similar cases: sports shoes, textiles,...). Enwp has a category en:Category:Freedmen, so apparently, some slaves were freed, and are worthy of articles. There are different concepts of "ritual servitude" (mostly in Asia and Africa, I think), so I can't rule out that the case "born as a slave" doesn't exist any more. Overall, difficult topic. Keep in mind, that for many reasons, our category system is often simpler than that of EnWP. Our audience is supposedly different too. In short: no, I think renaming the category will create more problem than it solves. If re-discussed, probably needs to go to Simple talk, as few people will watch category talk pages. --Eptalon (talk) 19:25, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
- What Eptalon said. Its longer too. Also, during these people's lifetime, slavery was natural. Another thing is that these people are notable, unlike most slaves in the past, which sort of changes the definition of this category. Elytrian - Talk 09:09, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
- Another problem that we face: If we really wanted to make a difference between a slave and an 'enslaved person': Even though little is known about Aesop's life, he seems to have been a slave (in the 5th or 6th century BC). In the 1800s, there were the first results of abolishing slavery, most of this happened around 1860-1880s. The first state to abolish slavery was probably Portugal (in 1771 for the mainland, a few years later for Madeira and the Azores). As outlined above, even today, there are many precarious owrking conditions that are similar to slavery. So If we really wanted to make the difference, we must keep track of the fact that before the abolition, there are slaves (born a slave) and enslaved people (born free, made a slave), and possibly freed slaves. Same thing for the state after the abolition, but again: I am nozt a historian, but I cannot answer the question if today, the case of 'born as a slave' really doesn't exist any more. In addition. in modern times, there are many concepts/words to describe 'unfree labour'. I haven't even talked about things like human trafficking, forced marriages, people being exploited sexually, child soldiers. Sorry to say so: The case: beforehand there was slavery, and with the effort of many people, there is no longer simply isn't true. And renaming the category opens a can of worms and introduces more problems that is solves.--Eptalon (talk) 10:35, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
- To address one of your concerns, the term "enslaved person" is being applied to both people captured in their own lifetimes and to their descendants who were born later, in places where the law declared them slaves from birth.
- The way I see it, there's no time limit on this. We can always change the category next year or five years from now. Darkfrog24 (talk) 14:38, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
- Another problem that we face: If we really wanted to make a difference between a slave and an 'enslaved person': Even though little is known about Aesop's life, he seems to have been a slave (in the 5th or 6th century BC). In the 1800s, there were the first results of abolishing slavery, most of this happened around 1860-1880s. The first state to abolish slavery was probably Portugal (in 1771 for the mainland, a few years later for Madeira and the Azores). As outlined above, even today, there are many precarious owrking conditions that are similar to slavery. So If we really wanted to make the difference, we must keep track of the fact that before the abolition, there are slaves (born a slave) and enslaved people (born free, made a slave), and possibly freed slaves. Same thing for the state after the abolition, but again: I am nozt a historian, but I cannot answer the question if today, the case of 'born as a slave' really doesn't exist any more. In addition. in modern times, there are many concepts/words to describe 'unfree labour'. I haven't even talked about things like human trafficking, forced marriages, people being exploited sexually, child soldiers. Sorry to say so: The case: beforehand there was slavery, and with the effort of many people, there is no longer simply isn't true. And renaming the category opens a can of worms and introduces more problems that is solves.--Eptalon (talk) 10:35, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
- What Eptalon said. Its longer too. Also, during these people's lifetime, slavery was natural. Another thing is that these people are notable, unlike most slaves in the past, which sort of changes the definition of this category. Elytrian - Talk 09:09, 25 July 2021 (UTC)