Talk:Christian Church

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Intro to this article[change source]

The term Christian Church, Catholic Church or One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church[1], as it was known beginning in 110 AD,[2] expresses the idea that organised Christianity (the Christian religion) is seen as an institution.
Today there are several churches that consider themselves to be Christian. They have a lot of different doctrines and traditions. There are many controversies between the denominations which exist today.

  • Definition. No! Even though this sentence has two citations, neither of those citations pertain to the definition that this editor has given, but only to the name and the date. The definition itself is entirely wrong!!
  • Second sentence "several churches that consider themselves to be Christian." This sentence is again about "organisations" and what they consider. It is irrelevant. It also comes across as either bigotted or prejudiced, as if a Church that is by definition a "Christian church" might do anything but "consider itself" Christian.
  • This term, the "one Holy and Apostolic Church" is not' about "organised" Christianity, and Chriistianity as an "institution". Those two things are bi-products.

Amandajm (talk) 01:01, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Suggestion for intro[change source]

For the intro there are internal references which may help clarify the point. For example, instead of:

There are many other beliefs that are different between different denominations. These differences have sometimes caused arguments and have caused the organised church to split into denominations. The different opinions are called controversies.

I propose:

Over the centuries, differences in belief (called controversies) have resulted in the formation of sectarian beliefs. When the Church splits to form an organised denomination the event is called a schism. See East-West Schism.

This includes the connotations of development of denominations and introduces terminology further linking in articles. I can't edit the page so can someone read this over and discuss a change? I am unsure of my word sectarian. Maybe that wants altering. thanks

Moves[change source]

This page has been moved several times

  1. it was created as Christian Church and that term is used in the definition.
  2. it was moved to One Holy and Apostolic Church and that term is also used in the definition
  3. it was recently moved to Four Marks of the Church. An article of that name exists on Wkipedia. The four marks are One, Holy, Catholic (ie Universal) and Apostolic.
  4. I have just shifted all the info over to the page Christian Church.


  1. No article existed named Christian Church. It was a redirect to One Holy etc etc etc. This seems frankly ridiculous!
  2. The name One Holy etc etc seems cumbersome for a "Simple English" article.
  3. The name Four Marks of the Church is hardly the appropriate name for the only article that actually describes the universal Christian Church. It is an obscure name for an article, that only a student of Theology will search for. This article must be accessible to the ordinary reader.


  • When I tried to move the page to Christian Church I could not do so, because the page already existed. This needs fixing by someone who understands the Wiki programming better than I do.

Amandajm (talk) 08:49, 23 July 2008 (UTC)