Talk:The Substitute (Glee)
The current numbers I am seeing on this article (in most important categories) are a 9.7 average grade level reading level and 18 words per sentence average. I am also seeing a lot of unlinked unsimple words (first sentence - episode) and show is ambiguous even when linked to series (better to use series/program) over show)
The main issue is in sentence structure. 18 words per sentence is huge. Two prime examples on structure:
Point 1[change source]
| “ | It is the 29th episode total and was written by Ian Brennan, and directed by Ryan Murphy. | ” |
—as written | ||
Does the fact that it is the 29 episode have anything to do with its director and writer?
| “ | It was the 29th episode of the entire series. The episode was directed by Ryan Murphy and written by Ian Brennan]. | ” |
—suggested | ||
You could even split the second into two sentences; one for director (as written) and "It was written by ..." for writer. Each sentence should be single well focused thought. They shouldn't be combined unless absolutely needed to get the point across.
- It was simplified. If you want to change it, change it. TheHistorianUser | Talk 18:23, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
Point 2[change source]
| “ | Fallon suggested that Glee should be cautious when "overusing recreations", which they already done so in "The Power of Madonna", "Britney/Brittany" and "The Rocky Horror Glee Show",[47] and VanDerWerff criticized the performances as "outright plagiarism, not homage (in respect) | ” |
—as written | ||
This is kind of a disaster. Its a single 42 word long sentence. (with readability lever over 20.) Lets start with the first word (yeah, bad enough that the first word sets off enough bells to be mentioned alone). Who is Fallon? I was wondering why Jimmy Fallon was making comments here, but after catching the ref at the bottom, I see you are talking about a different Fallon.. It should be concise in the prose what you are talking about. We also don't know who VenDerWerff is, let alone what he has to do with Fallon (same sentence..)
| “ | Kevin Fallon said that Glee should should not be "overusing recreations"[notes 1]. He said that they had done this in other episodes. These included The Power of Madonna, Britney/Brittany and The Rocky Horror Glee Show. VanDerWerff[notes 2] said he did not like the performances. He said they were "outright plagiarism", not an homage". [notes 3] | ” |
—suggested | ||
From one 42 word sentence (at 20+) to five sentences (avg- 10.6 words, 8.7 level: mainly do to big words that can't be worked around, but in some cases are linked: episode, Plagiarism, performance).
Notes[change source]
- ↑ This is a hard spot. It is a quote so it is hard to translate recreations here as it changes the quote. Is a link to a better word possible? Adding an interpretation of what he means (rather than a translation) may work, but as I don't watch Glee, I don't know what actions he saw in the later listed episodes that he is complaining they are using yet again in this episode so I can't put an explanation of his word choice in simplier terms.
- ↑ Does he have a first name or position worth mentioning? Fallon was a guest commentator in panel and a web critic in general so leaving him as just any random critic is fine. If this person is the same, so be it, but I have no way of knowing his importance as there is no reference to him saying this
- ↑ (in resepect) ? .. in respect to who or what?
This is just looking at 3 sentences in the article. (first and the two listed) The general concepts can be found through out the article (Simplification is an very difficult task as it turns out.. it just comes with practice. I still wince looking at some of my earlier attempts..) The original en: version of this is at a 11.8/ 21.3 words per sentence level, so this is 9.7/18 word version is a good improvement, but for many articles we can aim for around a 7th grade level. This usually comes with 12-14 words per sentence (and 1.4 sylables per word - this is only a tad high at 1.5 but acceptable there). --Creol(talk) 05:40, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks for this impressive review! I've fixed, I believe, everything you've pointed out. For the "television show" do you suggest "television program" instead? Best, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 13:39, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
- Program and series both redirect to the same article so in many cases they are are interchangeable. I tend to use program for single events or non-continuing programs. (ie. they don't have a continuous storyline running]] and series for those that have some semblance of a storyline (even if it is vague as in many sitcoms). Glee would definitely be a series as it follows the story of set group of characters. It is a program, but series is a more accurate description and a subset of programs. The key is to be consistent and avoid the ambiguity that could leas to "FOX has shown by showing the certain shows they are showing that the shows they show show the choices in shows they like to show. The shows shown on Fox show a different idea about showing shows than the shows shown on CBS." - show is evil. --Creol(talk) 04:41, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks for explaining :D I'll keep this in mind when writing more
showseries/episode articles :D Best, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 12:45, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks for explaining :D I'll keep this in mind when writing more
- Program and series both redirect to the same article so in many cases they are are interchangeable. I tend to use program for single events or non-continuing programs. (ie. they don't have a continuous storyline running]] and series for those that have some semblance of a storyline (even if it is vague as in many sitcoms). Glee would definitely be a series as it follows the story of set group of characters. It is a program, but series is a more accurate description and a subset of programs. The key is to be consistent and avoid the ambiguity that could leas to "FOX has shown by showing the certain shows they are showing that the shows they show show the choices in shows they like to show. The shows shown on Fox show a different idea about showing shows than the shows shown on CBS." - show is evil. --Creol(talk) 04:41, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
Further simplification[change source]
I ran through it and started tossing periods around all over the place. Without a major overhaul of content (kept pretty much everything that was here, just tweaked sentences and shifted word choices) I pumped it from 130 sentences up to 189. This dropped the average words per sentence from 17.2 down to 12.2 and the reading level from 9.4 to 7.2. There are still a couple lines in there I'm not too happy with, but I can't seem to find alternatives for them. --Creol(talk) 06:00, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
- Wow thanks for that!! Can you please tell me which sentences are those? Maybe I can take a stab on those :) Best, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 12:43, 4 April 2012 (UTC)