User talk:173.8.113.1

Birds' bones

If it's not contentious, then where is your EVIDENCE? Give the article a reliable reference, please.

From English WP Bird anatomy at [1]

"Birds have many bones that are hollow (pneumatized) with criss-crossing struts or trusses for structural strength. The number of hollow bones varies among species, though large gliding and soaring birds tend to have the most. Respiratory air sacs often form air pockets within the semi-hollow bones of the bird's skeleton. Some flightless birds like penguins and ostriches have only solid bones, further evidencing the link between flight and the adaptation of hollow bones."

You see that no-one has added a references on this point for nearly two years. So, if you do find a reference, please add it there as well. Regards, Macdonald-ross (talk) 07:15, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

I think a part of the problem is that I would need to find a source that uses the exact terms used here, Hollowness or solidness is an arbitrary judgement, human bones aren't bone through-and-through, and bird bone marrow has a honeycomb of bone in it not entirely unlike our own.

This is only the preview and I can't see the context for it, but this seems somewhat substantial even so: [BOOK] Ostriches and other flightless birds C Arnold - 1990 - books.google.com ... The scientific name for ostriches and their relatives is Ratitae, or ratites, which is from the Latin word meaning raft. The bones of ratites are also much heavier than those of birds that fly —ratites have solid bones, whereas birds that fly have hollow bones. . 173.8.113.1 (talk) 13:13, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Hollowness of bird main bones means the presence of air sacs, not the presence of the blood cell-forming tissue called 'bone marrow'. It is not an arbitrary judgement. I think the legs of the ostrich do not have air-sacs, and are thus (secondarily) 'solid', but I have failed to find a specific reference to this on enWP. I was not arguing about the fact, but about its presentation under our rules. I think, on reflection, I will leave it in, together with a comment about air sacs. I think the use of 'solid' is ambiguous, just as you say, but on this wiki we have to use fairly simple terms. Macdonald-ross (talk) 09:23, 15 April 2012 (UTC)