User talk:YellowStahh
2014 WTA Tour[change source]
Thank you for your article submission, 2014 WTA Tour. I noticed this was copied and pasted from the English Wikipedia. That is allowed with some exceptions. Please see the guideline Wikipedia:How to copy from another Wikipedia for an explanation. While you did make some changes, the article is far too complex for Simple English Wikipedia. As much as possible we use Simple English words and grammar here. We are very different from the English Wikipedia which you seem to be well aquainted with. Our target readers are people who are learning English. The article needs to be both simplified and wikified (beyond the links in the copied text). To get some idea of how to simplify a page see Wikipedia:How to write Simple English pages. The idea is shorter simpler sentences and using more Simple English words. For those more complex words necessary to the article, create links to other Simple English Wikipedia articles and use the Simple English Wiktionary for nouns. You will find some subjects are more challenging to simplify than others. The article is currently tagged for being complex, having no sources and needs additional wikifying. If you could keep these things in mind when creating or changing articles here, it would be a tremendous help. Thank you and welcome to Simple English Wikipedia. Rus793 (talk) 12:32, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
(conversation copied from User talk:Rus793:)
- I am aware of the problems associated with the article and will be doing my best to solve them. YellowStahh (talk) 12:45, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
- If you need any help or additional resources, just ask. You can post any question at Wikipedia:Simple talk. Hope you enjoy editing here. Rus793 (talk) 12:54, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
- Sourcing I am alright with, is there anything you are able to point to as far as the English being over complicated? Also any examples of the code not being wikified would be helpful, I understand there are the line breaks and the background colour as far as I can see there aren't other ways around this usage. YellowStahh (talk) 13:02, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
- If you need any help or additional resources, just ask. You can post any question at Wikipedia:Simple talk. Hope you enjoy editing here. Rus793 (talk) 12:54, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
┌─────────────────────────────────┘
OK, to start, think of writing as if you were speaking to a group of, say, sixth graders. What words would you use to explain what the WTA Tour was? Also, you'd have to assume that at least a few members of your audience would not know what a tour was. The reason this wiki exists is that some readers, on looking up an article at the English Wikipedia, would often find it far too difficult to read. In fact, according to the Readability of Wikipedia tool, this article is written at a level read by university graduates. Ideally, we need the writing to be more at the level of 6th to 7th grade; which just about everyone can read. Readability is just a tool to get a very general idea of the complexity of an article. Simplifying involves more than just readability. Simplicity involves simpler sentences, using more Simple English words and overall deciding how much depth we want to go into. It is also very closely tied to wikifying an article. Wikifying is formatting using Wiki markup based on the Wikipedia:Guide to layout. Other requirements of articles here are covered in the Wikipedia:Manual of Style. I've linked to these guidelines because they're written by some of the best minds at this wiki. In most cases, I'd simply be reiterating what they already say. Reading them and referring to them repeatedly is the best way to write good articles here. I always hated it when a professor answered a question saying: 'read the book'. In this case, however, it's really the best way to learn how this wiki works. For now, let me try simplifying and wikifying the lead of the article, just to give you an example. Simplifying is something many of us work on constantly. Rus793 (talk) 15:31, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
- I have an idea to remodel the article similar to the French version, obviously there is no other way around using the WTA Tour, since it's the name, so would the suggestion be to explain that it is a series of tournaments that count towards the WTA ranking system? YellowStahh (talk) 16:03, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
- I edited the lead as just an example of wikifying (bolding the title and using it in the first sentence; linking to sewiki and wikt articles). As just a suggestion, I'd watch the level of detail, keeping in mind the readership here. Even the French version goes into more detail than might be appropriate here. Whether you add a history section or not is entirely up to you. Go ahead and edit it as you see fit. Keep in mind, this is a learning process and we all get better with practice. Also, good articles here are the work of many editors. We sometimes use redlinks, which I'm sure you know are words linked to future articles usually based on the title of the same article at enwiki. We try not to use too many, and also view them as opportunities for other new articles to create or bring over from a sister project. You might also notice in the 'How to copy' article (linked above) that steps 15 and 16 will take care of attribution (a legal requirement in copying between wikis). Just add it to one of your next edit comments. Alternatively you can follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Transwiki attribution which uses a template on the talk page. Ordinarily attribution is something brought up when a new editor gains a little experience here. But you're already an experienced editor which is why I mentioned it now. Good luck with the article and your editing here. Rus793 (talk) 16:35, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
- I understand making the lead less complex, but to me it almost seems like it's to a extreme. YellowStahh (talk) 12:54, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
- I edited the lead as just an example of wikifying (bolding the title and using it in the first sentence; linking to sewiki and wikt articles). As just a suggestion, I'd watch the level of detail, keeping in mind the readership here. Even the French version goes into more detail than might be appropriate here. Whether you add a history section or not is entirely up to you. Go ahead and edit it as you see fit. Keep in mind, this is a learning process and we all get better with practice. Also, good articles here are the work of many editors. We sometimes use redlinks, which I'm sure you know are words linked to future articles usually based on the title of the same article at enwiki. We try not to use too many, and also view them as opportunities for other new articles to create or bring over from a sister project. You might also notice in the 'How to copy' article (linked above) that steps 15 and 16 will take care of attribution (a legal requirement in copying between wikis). Just add it to one of your next edit comments. Alternatively you can follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Transwiki attribution which uses a template on the talk page. Ordinarily attribution is something brought up when a new editor gains a little experience here. But you're already an experienced editor which is why I mentioned it now. Good luck with the article and your editing here. Rus793 (talk) 16:35, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
- It was given as an example of bolding the title per the MOS, linking words not in Simple English and using simpler sentences. I didn't intend it to be the final version of the lead, I'll leave that to you. It was just an example of how the article might be simplified and wikified from a more complex article. Just remember that many of our readers are still learning English. Rus793 (talk) 15:16, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
- Ok, I appreciate the assistance, and it'll probably be a slow build anyway so I'll have a lot of time to think of how to simplify. YellowStahh (talk) 17:43, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
- It was given as an example of bolding the title per the MOS, linking words not in Simple English and using simpler sentences. I didn't intend it to be the final version of the lead, I'll leave that to you. It was just an example of how the article might be simplified and wikified from a more complex article. Just remember that many of our readers are still learning English. Rus793 (talk) 15:16, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
- So I used the lead from the 2011 WTA Tour article, because it was simpler (and yes that page will get redone in time) and I changed details to report because it's a simpler word, and added "Prize money:" and "Court:" to the page to make it more clear as well as a paragraphy from Tennis court and made that simpler, the paragraph was fine just needed some words changed and rearranged. YellowStahh (talk) 18:26, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
- It looks like it's coming along. Links to words like tour and tier are not in the Wikipedia:Basic English alphabetical wordlist. So they're going to be red links for now. Sewiki doesn't have those articles. But they are an opportunity to create these support articles yourself or bring them over from enwiki. Where you want to create new categories, you need three pages, as Aunt has mentioned. If you create two more that fall in the same category then you have your three. You can also edit the Simple English Wiktionary adding words (nouns) and definitions from the English Wikipedia—if you are comfortable doing that. Anyway, it's a bit of work converting an article, but well worth it. Rus793 (talk) 23:01, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
- I think Aunt was too quick to delete the categories, maybe after a week or two with the categories being in the same position I would understand the deletion, but he could have taken a look at the article and judged the likelyhood they would be used soon. 213.205.234.181 (talk) 08:17, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- That IP was me, I don't know why it didn't show up my username. YellowStahh (talk) 09:11, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- Patrollers, like myself, are to delete empty categories as we find them. Most often they're part of articles brought over from enwiki. Otherwise they'd remain as red linked cats and would quickly accumulate. You'll find that several guidelines, policies and practices here are somewhat different from enwiki. Again, the best way is to create or bring over three or more articles that would use this cat, then add the new cat to all three (minimum) at the same time. Rus793 (talk) 11:28, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- Since this is a collaboration I would just prefer if I was talked to before it was deleted, at least then I could be asked when I think it's going to fill the minimum standard, and if the reasoning for the creation conflicts then I would understand. YellowStahh (talk) 13:16, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- Patrollers, like myself, are to delete empty categories as we find them. Most often they're part of articles brought over from enwiki. Otherwise they'd remain as red linked cats and would quickly accumulate. You'll find that several guidelines, policies and practices here are somewhat different from enwiki. Again, the best way is to create or bring over three or more articles that would use this cat, then add the new cat to all three (minimum) at the same time. Rus793 (talk) 11:28, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- It looks like it's coming along. Links to words like tour and tier are not in the Wikipedia:Basic English alphabetical wordlist. So they're going to be red links for now. Sewiki doesn't have those articles. But they are an opportunity to create these support articles yourself or bring them over from enwiki. Where you want to create new categories, you need three pages, as Aunt has mentioned. If you create two more that fall in the same category then you have your three. You can also edit the Simple English Wiktionary adding words (nouns) and definitions from the English Wikipedia—if you are comfortable doing that. Anyway, it's a bit of work converting an article, but well worth it. Rus793 (talk) 23:01, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
┌─────────────────────────────────┘
OK, it's difficult to apply enwiki logic to this wiki. We're similar yet different. Our cats are one area where there are more differences than similarities. Aunt is really one of the go-to editor/administrators on anything having to do with categories. I know that the minimum of three articles before creating a new category comes from the guideline Wikipedia:Categories#Creating_new_categories. I don't know of any provision to negotiate anything before having three articles, just that it's a minimum of three. You'll find that other editors and admins here will help you out and point out issues before they become a problem. They're not necessarily collaborating with you on an article, they're just trying to steer you in the right direction and help you get acclimated to this wiki. Our priority here is to have pages that can be read by younger readers and others new to the English language. We aren't a large wiki and we have only 21 admins. who, most of the time, are wearing two or more hats. When new articles are posted here they're expected to be simplified, wikified, and have the correct layout. If not, a patroller or admin checks over the page and determines the best course of action.
One thing I haven't mentioned before is that even after you simplify and wikify a complex article, you also need to give attribution. This is covered in Wikipedia:Transwiki attribution. Easiest and cleanest way is to place the template: {{based on|NAME OF ARTICLE |version=VERSION NUMBER}} (plus ~~~~ ) on the talk page of the new article. The guideline explains where to find the version number on the enwiki article. This satisfies the legal requirements to credit the authors of the original article. Rus793 (talk) 18:15, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
August 2014[change source]
Hello! Thank you for creating Category:WTA Tour. However, we normally need at least three pages in a category before it is created. Because categories are a way to group together similar articles, there is no need to create a new category for just one or two articles. If you think there might be more pages to add to the new category, please add them now. Thank you. I have already deleted some categories that contained only one entry. They can be created again when there are at least three entries to go into them. Auntof6 (talk) 07:35, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
Talkback[change source]
Message added 15:33, 8 August 2014 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.