|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Laura Branigan article.|
Sources about Laura Branigan Laura Branigan in March 1954 http://northcastle.advantage-preservation.com/document/villager-1954-03-11-page-3 Laura's brother Billy's birth notice from 1957...http://chappaqua.advantage-preservation.com/document/patent-trader-1957-03-14-page-7 Laura awarded with 47 others for its well fitness, Byram Hills High School in 1968 http://chappaqua.advantage-preservation.com/document/patent-trader-1968-12-05-page-23 June 20, 1970, Laura's graduation day with 116 other students. It is the first time her fourth name Frances are used. http://chappaqua.advantage-preservation.com/document/patent-trader-1970-06-20-page-21 November 1969, Laura with friends made the famous Stowaway to England. It wasn't so glamour as it was told later in a TV-show. http://chappaqua.advantage-preservation.com/document/patent-trader-1969-09-11-page-23 September 1970, Laura informed that she is awarded a place at American Academy of Dramatic Arts in New York. Byram Hills pays directly to them. This was the first time the academy was mentioned. http://chappaqua.advantage-preservation.com/document/patent-trader-1970-09-03-page-28 2009, Byram Hills Awards to a senior for excellence in the Performing Arts. The award is presented in memory of Laura Branigan, BHHS class of 1970. http://www.byramhills.org/files/filesystem/spectrum_summer09.pdf 2010, Byram Hills Awards to a senior for excellence in the Performing Arts. The award is presented in memory of Laura Branigan, BHHS class of 1970. http://www.byramhills.org/files/filesystem/spectrum_july10.pdf End of sources. I have much, much more if someone is interested.--Born53 swe (talk) 13:36, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
Ref #8. Why is Mark Dagostino's name erased? He was with Susan Horsburgh and interviewed (6 May 2002). "Facing the Music". People Magazine/Time Inc.. http://laurabraniganonline.com/images/PeopleArticle.pdf — This unsigned comment was added by Born53 swe (talk • changes) at 08:57, 7 August 2015.
- His name isn't there because he isn't the author. The People article's byline clearly says "by Susan Horsburgh". Source citations do not usually list contributors unless they share the byline. Also, the dead link above is to a different url than the one in the source citation. Right now this appears to be superfluous information and is not helpful. User:Rus793 (talk) 20:00, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
The English Wikipedia talk page for this singer discusses her age at length, including in this entry: www.imdb.com While many sites on the Internet list her birth year as 1957, it's her younger brother Billy who was born on February 28, 1957, not her. She used the 1957 date for publicity purposes. The Internet Movie Database, a professional organization recognized as an authority in its field gives the correct birth year, after being updated on March 17, 2015, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ALaura_Branigan, as well as Armonk's own Facebook site, see https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=325955857497964&id=325954790831404. An unsigned New York Times obituary gives 1957, which may be the source for the other sites, but if she was born in 1957 she would have had to have released her first single at age 16 while still in high school, while as described in member Chris Van Cleave's Web site, she met the members of the band Meadow at the American Academy of Dramatic Arts, which only accepts high school graduates (see http://www.aada.edu/admissions/requirements.html), releasing their debut album in 1973 after her graduation from that in 1972. Thus she released the album at age 21, not 16. If she were born in 1957 she would have had to wait to enroll in 1975 and graduate in 1977, but by then the album was released, the band dissolved, and her career was so advanced that she was touring Europe. Her high school paper the Byram High School District Spectrum, which can be taken as an authority, states that she graduated in 1970, verifying the 1952 birth date. Kdammers (talk) 06:54, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
- @Kdammers: Where does that text come from? I don't see it on en:Talk:Laura Branigan. I'd also like to point out that IMDB may be professional, and they may be recognized, but for Wikipedia purposes it is not a reliable source. Neither is Facebook. Maybe the best we can do is mention both dates and explain that different sources give different dates. --Auntof6 (talk) 07:53, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
- This same fan has been trying to change her date of birth everywhere anyone will listen. The fact he has uploaded this to IMDb, then wants to use IMDb as a source underlines why it is not reliable for our purposes. I don’t know if his ban has been lifted at enwiki but he is incessant about this. These pieces of evidence he’s gathered show a person named Laura Branigan showed up in this newspaper clipping, and that school newspaper, etc. But there was more than one of this name living in that part of New York. There is no proof any of these Laura’s mentioned are the same person. Name-matching individuals with common first and last names is not credible researching and can’t be relied upon for accurate information. His gathering of this information is both OR and synthesis. The closer you look into this the harder it becomes to take seriously.
- Most of the reliable sources used in this article say she was age 47 at her death. Seven of them have “age 47” in the title. Several also have her date of birth as July 3, 1957. This is not a case of just one or two having that date. Simple math confirms the year as 1957 (2004-47=1957). People magazine reported she married in 1981 when she was 24 (1981-24=1957). Several sources reported an age difference between her and her husband of 20 years. He was 44 at the time. There is no question the fan believes his date to be 1952, but it doesn’t work. To accept his COI sources would mean scrapping all 11 reliable sources used in the article. It would end up looking like this: en:Laura Branigan. Read the “sources” there and see if this is what we want here. For example, the first is IMDb followed by a classic example of synthesis of published material that advances a position. Look at what follows www.imdb.com in source #1. The second "source" states: " Please don't try to change the birth year from 1952 to 1957 without citing a more reliable source than a newspaper article not signed by a recognized authority". A newspaper article not signed by a recognized authority? The third source is a fansite, and so on. He's also not been very careful what sources that were apparently left in the article. Source #5 while identified as CNN, is actually a copy of the People article. It states "As a 24-year-old in 1981, when she met Kruteck at a Manhattan party... But Kruteck, a lawyer 20 years her senior...". This is just one of several examples of shooting his own theory in the foot. This is a controversy one person has started and is campaigning for. I don’t see why we would want to get involved in this, add confusion to the article here or make changes based on unreliable and synthesized sources. User:Rus793 (talk) 13:55, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
Hi folks! Having trouble with Laura and her age? Yes, she was born 1952. But I do understand that you are experts about Laura. So if I ask some questions about her timeline, you will know the answer and also exactly the day it happened. After all, you are experts! You had me warned and banned though I was providing sources which you cannot. OK, lets start with an easy question. If Laura was born 1957, which year did the local paper wished her a happy 9th birthday? Was it 1961 or was it 1966? The papers name as well, thank you! When Laura was 16 years she was awarded for her well fitness. Was it 1968 or 1973? How many were awarded that day? Armonk Recreation area Playground Olympics competition were held in July 27 this year. How old was Laura at this event? And who was her partner? A classmate, or? They also won a medal. Was it gold, silver or bronze? This time you must think and use your brain carefully. Remember that her partner was 9 years old 1961, so how old was Laurie? Was she 4 years or 9 like her partner? Laura was a splendid athletic as you already knows. You are the experts so this will be a really easy one. This year, 1969 Laurie wins silver. Was it long jump or high jump? And how old was she? Was she 12 years or was she 17 years old 1969? Last question, this is simple. I would be very disappointed if you have the wrong answer. According to her school Laura graduated June 20, 1970. Right or wrong? If wrong, which year would it be? So the very last...As you are the experts, you will have no problems about those questions. And this last one must be so easy so it is ridiculous. Was Laura born 1952 or was it 1957? The school paper Spectrum (2009 and 2010) says Laura Branigan was a BHHS alumni and "Class of 1970". Was Laura Branigan 13 years old when she graduated 1970, or was she 18 years old? As I have done a long journey with Laura Branigan, I know that her birth year was 1952. My Laura collection contents 100's of old rare photos, old papers, etc. Everything says 1952. Am I right or am I wrong? The answer is in the questions, and you are the wikipedia's elite when it comes to Laura's biography. Or are you just simple readers and believe what media has written about Laura without your own critical thinking. My last lines will be from a former friend and also classmate to Laura Branigan. Her name is Alice "Ali" Ryerson, the famous jazz flutist. She wrote to me..Hi, thanks for your FB message about my old friend Laura. Yes, we grew up together, and we were the same age, both born in 1952. I know her press reported her age differently, so her fans would think she was younger, and Lisa (Podell) and I used to chuckle about that! Laurie, Lisa and I were all the same age. Sadly we lost Laura, as you know, but Lisa and I are still in touch. I do NOT remember Laurie's birthday (July 3 - I've no idea), but the year was 1952. I hope this helps! And someday I'll tell you more about our stowaway adventure in 1969, when the 3 of us were seniors in high school! 2015-07-5 07:20 Ali Ryerson Best regards, Ali. That's all from me folks. Still having trouble with Laura's birth year? Or are you convinced about 1952? Good, I know you were the experts. But you are far, far behind me.--Born53 swe (talk) 23:55, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
I understand you hate to see this, but the truth has been spread around the whole internet. pagesix.com/2015/08/24/laura-branigan-was-52-not-47-when-she-died/]--Born53 swe (talk) 13:48, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Auntof6: I C&P'ed it to the best of my knowledge from the Wik/en/LB/talk page (the only other possible source would have been the Simple English LB/talk page. But I can't find it now either. Since there seems to be a war on at en, maybe some-one erased it (one editor, maybe the one who wrote this) has complained about being blocked etc., so maybe that's what happened. I don't know: I was just trying to bring in some relevant material. Actually, there is a lot more at Wik/en, but the point just made above me about there being more than one LB is well taken and might be the source of the confusion -- or not. I don't know and have no special interest or knowledge. (But the apparent disappearance of the material I quoted is strange.) Kdammers (talk) 22:37, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
- Kdammers, I have the answer, I believe: It is actually in the article itself on enwiki. this is now the reference note for citation #1 in her English Wikipedia article: 
- www.imdb.com While many sites on the Internet list her birth year as 1957, it's her younger brother Billy who was born on February 28, 1957, not her. She used the 1957 date for publicity purposes. The Internet Movie Database, a professional organization recognized as an authority in its field gives the correct birth year, after being updated on March 17, 2015, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ALaura_Branigan, as well as Armonk's own Facebook site, see https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=325955857497964&id=325954790831404. An unsigned New York Times obituary gives 1957, which may be the source for the other sites, but if she was born in 1957 she would have had to have released her first single at age 16 while still in high school, while as described in member Chris Van Cleave's Web site, she met the members of the band Meadow at the American Academy of Dramatic Arts, which only accepts high school graduates (see http://www.aada.edu/admissions/requirements.html), releasing their debut album in 1973 after her graduation from that in 1972. Thus she released the album at age 21, not 16. If she were born in 1957 she would have had to wait to enroll in 1975 and graduate in 1977, but by then the album was released, the band dissolved, and her career was so advanced that she was touring Europe. Her high school paper the Byram High School District Spectrum, which can be taken as an authority, states that she graduated in 1970, verifying the 1952 birth date. and then: "Please don't try to change the birth year from 1952 to 1957 without citing a more reliable source than a newspaper article not signed by a recognized authority".
- This is mentioned in Rus793's comments above. I can't edit that article anymore although there are many bad things in it at the moment. It would decidedly be crossing into edit warring for me, although one at slow speed. I don't even like this artist... Thanks, Fylbecatulous talk 23:17, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
I see you are talking about me. Yes, I am the one behind her enwiki. If you have questions, I will answer you with delightful honor. In my Laura collection there are 100's of old rare photos, old paper news, etc. I have some emails I am waiting for about Branigan's and Brewster. From clerks upstate New York counties. And of course, I will let you all see the answers from them. Btw, have you seen the latest picture. Laura with sisters at Saint John and Saint Mary Catholic Church in Chappaqua. Year is 1959. It is also that year she takes the name Frances, which later can be seen in 1970 graduation. And yes, I have those documents in my collection. Did you know that Laura's and Larry's marriage licence from December 8, 1978, was #22691, Manhattan district. Signed by David N Dinkins in April 1979. Am I right or am I wrong?--Born53 swe (talk) 00:15, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
This is my very last comment. And it feels good to be telling the truth. So forget 1957 and 47, it is 1952 and 52 years from now on.http://pagesix.com/2015/08/24/laura-branigan-was-52-not-47-when-she-died/--Born53 swe (talk) 13:52, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
- According to her SSN-card from September 1970, she was born 1952. And yes, I have the SSN-card in my collection. Even if I could correct all faults in her simple wiki, I will not do it. So you don't have be worried in that case. Laura's wrongs will still be their, just like in her eng.wiki.
American Academy of Dramatic Arts[change source]
The article American Academy of Dramatic Arts lists Branigan as Notable alumni from the Class of 1972. However this article says that - In 1975, she graduated from high school and attended the American Academy of Dramatic Arts in New York City. and the reference for that sentence says After graduating from high school in 1975, Branigan enrolled at the American Academy of Dramatic Arts. So did she re-enroll after graduating from High School and attend the Academy again?22.214.171.124 (talk) 23:55, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
- Based on her age, it seems likely that 1972 is the more probable year she graduated high school. That said, the only online source does indicate 1975. It is possible that her actual graduation was delayed for some reason. It is also possible the source has it wrong. We report what the sources report, not what we think is more likely. Therefore, interested parties should try to locate better sources, and then boldly update the article (with the sources). Etamni | ✉ | ✓ 11:28, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
- Two sources in the article say she graduated high school in 1975 (1975-1957=18). If she had graduated high school in 1972, she would have been age 15 at the time (1972-1957=15), which is a little young. In the U.S., kids usually enter high school at age 14 and graduate at age 18. If a date given by a source is incompatible with the other sources and/or outside the norms, then that date becomes suspect. User:Rus793 (talk) 14:41, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
- ugh. I didn't want to get involved in the controversy over her correct year of birth. So I will say this: If the "1957-crowd" is correct, then 1975 would be correct; if the "1952-crowd" is correct, then an earlier year seems more likely. Has anybody actually seen her birth certificate, diploma, or HS yearbook by any chance? Those documents would be helpful to resolve this. Etamni | ✉ | ✓ 19:53, 4 April 2016 (UTC)