User talk:Ipigott/Inès de Bourgoing

Creating experimental Simple version of the EN Inès de Bourgoing.--Ipigott (talk) 13:38, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

As this is my first try on Simple, I would appreciate feedback from Eptalon, Auntof6 or Gotanda. The only way I was able to make a start on this was to prepare it on the EN wiki where I was able to use my usual support. Unfortunately I could not find any eqivalent on Simple which for a start is in the wrong format. I was not at all happy at having to justify my sources by reading a strange collection of meaningless letters (don't you know me?) and was upset by all those Simple alerts and emails. Is there any way these can be stopped? I never had them on EN wiki. The article is not yet finished but if it does not meet basic Simple requirements, then I would prefer to leave the creation of new articles to more competent "changers". Thanks for encouraging me to make a start here. Happy "changing" (dreadful choice in my opinion) and all the best with Simplification. Hope this does not sound too offensive but you've given me a pretty hard start.--Ipigott (talk) 20:30, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Some notes about the "translation"...

Here are some notes about the article:

• Be careful with anything that resembles a phrasal verb: 'She went on to develop nursing under the Red Cross approach in Morocco': I woould opt for a more direct approach: Either 'She used the R.C. approach to develop nursing in M.', or 'With the R.C. approach, she developed nursing in M.', or similar.
• 'For her important work, she was named...': Let's be short and snappy: 'For this work, she was awarded Grand Officer of the French Legion of Honor'.
• 'The couple had three children but one died...': There's no real opposition here, so: The couple had three children. [Unfortunately,?] One died before...
• 'After her husband had died from an illness in 1900, she trained...
• 'Shortly after...De Bourgoing joined an organisation treating injured soldiers, the Société de Secours aux Blessés Militaires, or SSBM. This later became the French Red Cross.
• 'It was here that in 1908 she helped to take care of the 80,000 people who had been injured in an earthquake': Much too long-winded, and not snappy enough: In 1908, she helped take care of the 80.000 people who had been injured in an earthquake, in Messina. (Also, earthquake likely need a link).
• I'd put links on nurseries, child-birth centers, and similar terms. Don't worry if they are red, they are easy to create.
• As to English or American spelling: don't worry, but please be consistent.

Did I forget anything? Eptalon (talk) 21:14, 3 August 2023 (U TC)

Thanks, Eptalon, for commenting in so much detail. I think I have been able to satisfy what you are aiming for. As a native English speaker, I have nevertheless a few reservations.

• I agree "went on" is not what we want. Even simpler: "She later used the Red Cross approach..."
• Grand Officer of the Legion of Honour is not an award. It's an honour. If you don't like named, we could perhaps say "... she received the rank of..." but I thought "named" would be more widely understood.
• I would like to maintain the "but" as it represents the "unfortunately". Indeed, the OED gives its first use as contrasting two statements. See [1].
• I've used your "had died" but I think "died" is just as correct. Could your use of the pluperfect be a result of your native German?
• Organization (with a Z) is perfectly acceptable in British English. I'm English and I have always used Z for verbs ending in -ize and equivalent noun forms. But I have trouble with this on the EN wiki too as Americans seem to think that in England the only correct form is -ise.
• I agree that the Messina bit needed attention. I think it's OK now. "Helped take care" is American English. The British equivalent is "helped to take care".
• I used "child-birth centre" for "maternity clinic" as I thought it would be easier to understand. It is not however a term normally used in English. I see "childbirth" (without the hyphen) already has an article. Nursery and earthquake already have articles. I've included wikilinks but they are all blue.

Despite these comments, I appreciate your detailed suggestions. They have given me a few insights into what you want to achieve. I'll try to take account of them as I finish the article.--Ipigott (talk) 07:21, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

I gave all the comments based on the work I have done here in the last years. You are editing the article, so it is your call what suggestions you take. Also, as a native speaker, your 'feeling' of what is right in the language is different. My comment regarding British Vs. American forms was not targeted at anything in particular. It was more a hint: we have many English learners as target audience, they won't care as much (as long as the form is correct). Simple English is not so much about controlled vocabulary, it is more about being able to explain. And if you link the term, it doesn't really matter if you use child-birth center or maternity center... all the people of Romance languages will understand maternity better than childbirth. For this reason I suggested adding a link.. Eptalon (talk) 09:23, 4 August 2023 (UTC)