User talk:Pure Evil

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Stub Templates[change source]

Hey PE,

Just wanted to remind you when you bring articles over or edit them, can you please make sure the stub templates are the very last thing on the bottom of the page. You can use User:PotsdamLamb/List_of_Article_Layout as a guide. It is taken from WP:MOS without all the fluff. I just did the Eaton Township for you. Thanks! PDLTalk to me!OMG, What have I done? 21:54, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, that is never going to happen. Aside from the MOS being a guideline and not a policy, there are only 3 mentions of stub in it and none are dealing with the placement of the template.
My personal preference, and how I will always place a stub template, is to ensure it is visible at the bottom of the body of the article so the user knows it is just a stub and that they are welcome to expand on it. This is most useful with articles that use long Infoboxes and full page footer templates. The blurb serves no purpose if it is hidden under a ton of white space where the user is not likely to ever see it. While I wont go out of my way to move the template in this manner , I will be placing it as such when adding it to an article. Pure Evil (talk) 22:06, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I understand it is a guideline and not a policy, however, if you look at the bottom of the page I sent you it does state stub templates as the last template to use. And to your point about all the white space, it does not do that unless you program it as such. What I do right after the notes is follow the guideline and just below the references, nav boxes etc., comes templates, commons, cats, stub. It does not cause white space. I believe what you are talking about is when an editor puts a bunch of vertical picture, that consumes space and then causes all the other issues. I have been thinking of a way to maybe isolate that part of it. PDLTalk to me!OMG, What have I done? 22:26, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
As to " the bottom of the page I sent you", are you referring to the page in your userspace that you wrote and is neither policy or accepted guideline?
As to placement, by default and with no one to "program" it as such, a template that uses the full page width, such as most navigation templates or the Authority control template, will not display until after all previous information has been displayed. These templates used at the same time as a large number of images or a large infobox will force the temple to be displayed after the end of the infobox. This often leads to a large amount of white space on the left side of the display of the article. Anything placed after such templates is forced to be displayed even further down the page past the white space and the templates causing it. As such, those templates are hidden from the view of most people reading the page. It takes no one to program this to happen, it is the way the system has always worked. example: User:Pure Evil/sandbox The stub template is useless in that space Pure Evil (talk) 22:51, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There is a way to clear all of that space which will then force the sections up and be able to resize them. I forget what it is but I think it is something like {{clearleft}} or {{clearright}}. There is also {{-}} (I know of that one for sure). As far as the access control, all it really needs is a page title and the link to wikidata (which usually happens on it's own) and set's the nav bars to the Q number and pulls in any information. I will get back to you soon once I remember how to do it. I will have to bring something over and work on it. PDLTalk to me!OMG, What have I done? 23:11, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
{{clear}}, and hence {{-}} just cause the white space problem where it does not exist naturally. By adding the clear attribute to a div, they force the system to wait until after everything to that point had been displayed before starting up again. This forces the system to add whitespace before presenting more of the page. Where a wide template can not display until it has room to do so, {{clear}} forces this behavior at the whim of the editor. While there may be uses for this, most often it needs to be avoided. In most of the cases of it being used, the template either serves no function or makes the display worse than it would be with out it. How access control works has no bearing here as all that matters with its use is the width of the box conflicting with elements on the screen forcing the display of extra white space.
In all, this is a case of people following the actions of automated systems by appending the tag to the end of the article since the bot can not determine the best place functionally to place the template. The bot is incapable of actual thinking, I am not. The bottom of the article is rarely the best place for the template. It is just the most convenient for a non thinking machine. Pure Evil (talk) 00:19, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
What I am thinking about is looking into whether the navboxes, etc can be somehow set to an auto adjust or allow us to determine width, as pretty much every other box does. That could be the most beneficial way, but on the flipside of the coin, we do not want to jam to much information in one small space. We can also take all of the pictures that are vertical causing the white space and do a gallery that is horizontal which cuts down dramatically on the white space. BTW, I am hoping you did not take that as a project for us to do. I was just saying going forward when you are importing them or if you are fixing one someone else imported. PDLTalk to me!OMG, What have I done? 00:24, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]