User talk:Smlombardi/Sandbox

The proverbial Index Cards . . .

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What is Self-Directed Learning? by Dana Skiff on June 24, 2009[[1]]

Tests Document Readability

[[2]] Number of characters (without spaces) : 1,411.00 Number of words : 301.00 Number of sentences : 22.00 Average number of characters per word : 4.69 Average number of syllables per word : 1.55 Average number of words per sentence: 13.68 Indication of the number of years of formal education that a person requires in order to easily understand the text on the first reading Gunning Fog index : 8.53 Approximate representation of the U.S. grade level needed to comprehend the text : Coleman Liau index : 9.62 Flesch Kincaid Grade level : 8.05 ARI (Automated Readability Index) : 7.49 SMOG : 10.01 Flesch Reading Ease : 61.69 List of sentences which we suggest you should consider to rewrite to improve readability of the text :

   *The caregiver can do something over and over again to music or in a pattern so that it is easier for the learner to remember.
   *Trained instructors decide what will be learned, why it will be learned, when it will be learned, who will learn, how it will be learned, and who will teach.
   *A caregiver can make-up words from the initials of many words to help the learner remember the many words.
   *The caregiver can set up play stations for art, music, objects, or anything that would help the learner.
   *The learners practice with the resources until they are confident that they know the information.
   *Self-directed learning is where the learners have the maturity to guide their own learning.
   *Self-determined learning does not need a caregiver, teacher, mentor, or school.

Comments Welcome!

I did a little copy editing, related to upper/lower case issues. Article titles and headings use lower case except for proper nouns and the first word. I changed the heading here, just make sure it's that way when the article is created.

Here are some other comments:

complex words and phrases: instruction, resources, maturity, aided, mentor, confident

I was going to say that the article needs an introductory lead section, but then I realized that this might be a list article. A list article would just need something like "This is a list of types of learning" at the top. If it's not a list article, it would need something more.

The sentence "This learner may teach themselves choosing the resources best for them." has he/she/they issues. The rest of the article seems to use third person plural, so you could stick with that here.

--Auntof6 (talk) 12:23, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

• IMO the invented words are a crock. Technical words on this wiki are to be used with discretion. These particular terms are not traditionally used in education, and I can see no reason to use them here. Macdonald-ross (talk) 13:23, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

• HI Macdonald-ross! Which words are irritating? Smlombardi (talk) 14:58, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Words like diaskagogy are highly off-putting, and are not in general use even amongst educators. Macdonald-ross (talk) 15:11, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Do you agree with the concepts?Smlombardi (talk) 15:13, 23 December 2014 (UTC) If you agree with the concepts, would it be best just to eliminate the words diaskagogy, pedagogy, andragogy, and heutagogy from this article list? Smlombardi (talk) 15:49, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Well, I think it's perfectly sensible from the point of view of teaching in schools. It's not very clear whereabouts in the last two categories one would consider programmed learning or flight simulation or an on-line univerity course, or role-playing... If what you want the page to do is deal with teacher-supervised learning, then I think you could cut out those terms and keep the rest. A page doesn't have to cover everything. Macdonald-ross (talk) 16:38, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Actually, it is online learning that most concerns me. My focus is on parenting, not pedagogy . . . but this article is intended to establish vocabulary for discussing different ways that people traditionally gain knowledge . . . and not all of that occurs in a classroom. What surprises me are the strong emotions this topic evokes.Smlombardi (talk) 18:07, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Remedy for complex words and phrases

instruction= ways to gain knowledge (no, that doesn't quite do it! Knowledge can be got without instruction. Perhaps "telling" is a close word)

resources= materials and methods

maturity= development,experience, readiness to learn ("readiness" is not bad)

aided= assisted, encouraged ("guided" is possible)

mentor= advisor (guide)

confident= self assured (no, I'd use "confident", but I don't think the notion is especially useful)

Some of the synonyms seem even more complex . . . any more suggestions for synonyms?Smlombardi (talk) 16:01, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

(comments in brackets are by Macdonald-ross (talk) 17:22, 23 December 2014 (UTC))

I've made some of the changes . . . more later . . . Smlombardi (talk) 19:08, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Instruction/Knowledge

In response to Macdonald-ross (talk) instruction = ways to gain knowledge "(no, that doesn't quite do it! Knowledge can be got without instruction. Perhaps "telling" is a close word)."

I agree that knowledge can be gained outside of the classroom. Defining "instruction" seems to be a global issue. Finding acceptable words to describe the different ways people acquire knowledge is a major challenge . . . so simplifying the vocabulary is very helpful when defining what we already recognize as good ways to learn certain types of information. When the word "diaskagogy" appeared on Facebook for discussion it attracted attention from an Asian population. I wonder if the guided play view is consistent with an Asian philosophy of education? Anyway, this discussion is very helpful to me (and I hope to others) as we progress toward a global understanding of how "instruction" and "education" are understood worldwide. Would it be wise to work this information into the existing article on Education and not create a new article?Smlombardi (talk) 20:14, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

As for the instruction/ways to gain knowledge thing: how about just "Ways of learning"? --Auntof6 (talk) 21:13, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

I like that! That explains the concept, allows for age appropriate distinctions without dictating a method, and avoids the big words that are controversial . . . yes! Smlombardi (talk) 21:19, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

I just checked the article on Learning which very clearly defines Behaviorist methods . . . correct for some types of learning but those are not the only ways to learn. I do not wish to create a fuss so what would you all suggest? Integrating the new information into an existing article, creating a new article, or avoiding controversy and just work on a different topic?Smlombardi (talk) 23:13, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Self-Directed Learning

This article disappeared from En.Wikipedia and was redirected to Autodidacticism. There is a difference . . . but probably not one that could be distinguished with Simple English. Smlombardi (talk) 19:18, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Article based on English Wikipedia

This article or parts of it were created based, in whole or in part, on this version of the English Wikipedia article. The complete history of the article can be found there.