Wikipedia talk:Feminism and Folklore 2024

January 2024

@Darkfrog24 Are you going to participate this year? Haoreima (talk) 03:10, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

I think I could manage. I've got a work thing that overlaps with it. Are you taking the lead? Darkfrog24 (talk) 20:05, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24 I will if there's no other person but I wish I could have a project partner, to be jury members together, because I also want myself to be a participant in the contest. In that case, my submitted articles need to be judged by another jury. Btw, off-wiki works are also important. I understand your concerns too! It's solely your choice. :-) --Haoreima (talk) 00:01, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

I might consider adding "second banana" to the fruit salad that has been my life. Darkfrog24 (talk) 00:14, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24 😂😂 I am not at home in prosaic idioms. Do you mean you want me to ask another person for the jury? Or, do you mean you want to act as an assistant jury this time? Who is the fruit salad? 😂😂 You make this poor Simple English Wikipedian confused by your Regular English😵😵😵😕😕😕! Haoreima (talk) 01:26, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I added the link just in case. Second banana means more like second in command, not the leader or first person. It means you'd be in charge. Darkfrog24 (talk) 14:17, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Which of the two systems did you set up for participants to log their entries? Fountain or the new one? Darkfrog24 (talk) 03:40, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24 both are available but so far submissions have been done only through Fountain. (Although I'm not an organiser) Ayesha46 (talk) 03:48, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

@Ayesha46@Darkfrog24 Both are allowed. Though there's no mandate to certain tool system, it's better to submit in both to avoid risk in case if they say anything in the eleven hour of the event. Haoreima (talk) 05:33, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

@Haoreima I'm not able to submit on CampWiz as it shows error...

Also I wanna ask whether an article having 4000 bytes as well as 400 words length is a criteria or any one of them is fine? Ayesha46 (talk) 09:13, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

@Ayesha46 If you want, then I can submit your articles on your behalf. And the judgement of accepting or rejecting the submitted articles in CampWiz tool will be done similarly to that of Fountain, no difference. The article should fulfill both criteria of 4000 bytes and 400 words (excluding the previously present words/bytes in the article). Else, it will be automatically not accepted even for submission, by the mechanism of the tool. Haoreima (talk) 09:51, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

No but when I submitted an article on Fountain which was lesser than 400 words but more then 4000 bytes it accepted but on CampWiz it got rejected (I'm using CampWiz for Marathi Wikipedia as they don't have Fountain as an option) and in the rule it's said article should have "400 words OR 4000 bytes" instead of "400 words AND 4000 bytes" so that's why I'm a bit confused Ayesha46 (talk) 12:01, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

In that case, I was telling you about the mandate for both bytes and words, based on my experience with that of Manipuri wikipedia's FNF event in CampWiz. Btw, for each campaign for each wiki, rules are set by their respective organisers in the CampWiz or Fountain. For Simple English wikipedia, it was done by me in both the tools adhering to the general guidelines. As far as I remember, I had set the 2 mandates simultaneously. Haoreima (talk) 12:23, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Ok Thanks for clarifying -- Ayesha46 (talk) 12:58, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

@Ayesha46 For your problems in submitting articles on CampWiz, you can take help from @User:Nokib Sarkar. Haoreima (talk) 16:07, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

@Haoreima Thanks, he has fixed the issue, now we can submit👍🏻 -- Ayesha46 (talk) 17:52, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Hi there! CampWiz accepts only 400+ words articles while Fountain accepts the ones with less words. Which one is valid?--Alperen (talk) 20:07, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Articles should have at least 400 words; that's a mandate. So, you can submit it through either Fountain or CampWiz. It's recommended to submit through both tho. – Cyber.Eyes2005^Talk 20:19, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

I have observed that articles accepted by Fountain are not accepted by Campwiz due to word limit and it is the same in English edition tools.--Alperen (talk) 20:38, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

in Simple English Wikipedia articles submitted should have minimum 400 words as well as 4000 bytes length according to the organiser: @Haoreima ; -- Ayesha46 (talk) 21:33, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

@Ayesha46@Alperen@Cyber.Eyes.2005 I am not comparing the tools, as better or worse, but I want to highlight the difference.

Campwiz highlights the two data, (1) no. of words added recently & (2) total no. of words (after addition + before addition). But in case of Fountain, it highlights only one data, just the total no. of words (after addition + before addition). So, if the no. of words added are even 399 only, if the article already had 400+ words, Fountain will accept the article. But in Campwiz, even if the no. of words already present is 4000+ or 40,000+, if the no. of newly added words are less than 400, it will automatically reject it. In fact, Campwiz does more scrutiny in the article submission. Haoreima (talk) 21:36, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Please make sure that your article has 400+ new words added after 1st of February, excluding references, citations, templates, etc. Haoreima (talk) 21:37, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

I've submitted articles through both tools, and they've worked well for me. However, all the articles I've created or expanded are above 400 words. – Cyber.Eyes2005^Talk 21:37, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Translations

Pinging the whole list:

@Haoreima, Ayesha46, Cyber.Eyes.2005, Alperen, Sumasa, and Magentic Manifestations:

This is a reminder that any translated article must be marked as a translation with credit given to our colleagues on other Wikis who wrote the original (even if that person was you). This isn't in the contest rules because it's a general policy here on SEWP, contest or no contest, WP:TA.

There are two ways to do this:

1. Say in the very first change description, "Translated from en[language code].wiki, oldid=[ID from the page history of the version you translated]." [1]
2. Place the translated template on the article talk page, as I did on Hadesarchaea: {{translated page|en|Hadesarchaea|version=929503340}} where "version" is again the ID from the page history of the version you translated.
3. Or do both.

Thanks, everyone! Let's give our Simple English readers some great material! Darkfrog24 (talk) 22:31, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Hello, I tried generating a listing of articles to translate, but wasn't able to, as the automated tools don't really work for SEWP. So, before I submit articles that don't really fit, how do I get a list of articles to translate? Eptalon (talk) 16:57, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Is this for the contest, Eptie? Darkfrog24 (talk) 01:47, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

yes, this would bethe tool that lists suggestions, and open the translation tool if you click on one of them. I started one of them, but I am not finished yet. The original article is 80+kB... Eptalon (talk) 14:57, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Why not prepare a shorter version for the contest? You could expand it later if you want to. Darkfrog24 (talk) 02:30, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Removing the deleted

@Darkfrog24 Shall we remove the deleted articles from the list of submissions in Fountain (as well as CampWiz)? It's enabled for removal by the juries. Haoreima (talk) 16:47, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

I don't know how to do that, but that's probably best. Darkfrog24 (talk) 00:00, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Choice of topic: Adoration of the Magi painting

@Haoreima: especially but everyone. What do we think of Adoration of the Magi painting entry as on-topic or off? A fine addition to SEWP, but it's not not intangible culture. Very tangible right there. I'm not sure the fine arts count as folklore. Darkfrog24 (talk) 01:53, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Darkfrog24 Having a slight mention of Jesus and three wise men creates its link with folklore. But in the overall aspect of the topic, it is more about an artwork and the artistic expression of the author, distant from the folk culture. I believe that it is not an on-topic. Haoreima (talk) 06:59, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

I have moved the article from "Adoration of the Magi" to "Adoration of the Magi (Fra Angelico and Filippo Lippi)" and the redirect has been deleted. This may affect how the entry shows up in Fountain and CampWiz. Darkfrog24 (talk) 16:37, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Also, repairing this issue has rendered this entry an orphan article. Darkfrog24 (talk) 20:31, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24 Shall we remove the first article and add the later article's moved target title? We can do that on behalf of the participant. Or shall we inform them first? Haoreima (talk) 11:16, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

My take is that contest-wise, we shouldn't do anything until the writing period is over. I don't think so, but hypothetically there could be some kind of folklore angle or feminism angle to this subject that you and I just haven't heard about and the contestant didn't know they needed to write about, like if someone didn't know Medusa with the Head of Perseus became a feminist icon associated with the Me Too movement. We should give the contestant until the end of the writing period to choose whether to spend time and energy on that.

However, Macdonald-Ross has raised concerns about the article's complexity and may nominate it for deletion as other entries have been deleted. SEWP-wise, all articles must suit SEWP's mission and audience. If the SEWP community says it goes, then it goes. If they/we say it stays, then it stays. Darkfrog24 (talk) 12:51, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Orphan articles

@Haoreima, Ayesha46, and Cyber.Eyes.2005: Heads up to all participants. Per the central rules, we aren't supposed to give WP:ORPHAN articles positive scores. An article is non-orphan if other articles link to it, but it doesn't matter if it links to other articles. It's about the links going in, not the links coming out. This is a relatively simple fix, and it would be a shame to give an entry a zero for this reason. Darkfrog24 (talk) 22:55, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

@Haoreima:, do you think we should be using the standard definition of WP:ORPHAN or SEWP's "don't tag it if there is even one link going in" for our judging. I just did a preliminary evaluation of an article that has exactly one. Darkfrog24 (talk) 19:54, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24 I believe that using the second way will be better as of the current situation, due to the less number of contributions from the participants in particular as well as the SEWP wikipedians in general. If an article satisfies the minimum threshold, let's give them a chance. :-) Haoreima (talk) 20:09, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24 Is it okay if I add links to the orphan articles, even though I'm not participating in the contest? Kk.urban (talk) 20:13, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

The contest must give way to the regular needs of the project. I will not tell you not to improve an article that needs it. As to whether the article's contributor gets the points, H and I would have to figure that out. Darkfrog24 (talk) 22:39, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Ok, I won't do that if it could stop articles from being eligible. Kk.urban (talk) 23:24, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

No no, it's okay, Kk.urban. SEWP comes first and the contest comes second. It's not your job to worry about it. H and I would figure something out. Darkfrog24 (talk) 15:57, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

What do we do with entries that are really REALLY not in simple English?

The past two months have shown many articles that are kind of not very simple, and our two most active contestants appeared to my eye to get better at writing in SE over time, but ...I'm starting to see a few that look like the writer just didn't understand what was wanted. Should we recommend deletion? I don't want the F&F contest to cause SEWP to be spammed by regular English articles. We'd have to stop holding it here. Darkfrog24 (talk) 20:43, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello,

I submitted some entries, I also tried to simplify some of them, and I have to say that it doesn't look possible, if you want to keep a certain level of scientifically accurate information; and you don't want to end up with sentences of 3-5 words. 8-10th grade is often doable; 7th grade is sometimes possible but often a stretch.In short: Flesch-Kinkaid (or whatever mehod you use) is nice to give you a rough guideline, but it cannot be used in full, if you are targeting science-inclined articles (and no, I am not talking MINT, even linguistics/psychology/,,,,). Note I "translated" a few longer ones; even if it doesn't look like it, these translations take a lot of effort.(And no: automatic translation doesn't quite work, at least not German to English). So, if we admit that we can't take a flesch-kincaid score as a base for rating the articles, what objective measure is left to rate them? - Given how much work it is, I doubt there will be many participants next year. Eptalon (talk) 21:03, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Yes, there is an element of subjectivity to this, and we should acknowledge it. But if SEWP's articles are not much easier to read than en.wiki's, then there is no point to SEWP. Writing in Simple English is hard work. We should acknowledge that too. Darkfrog24 (talk) 21:33, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Simple English

@Haoreima: We should discuss whether articles that are not sufficiently simple but have nothing else wrong with them get any points. Darkfrog24 (talk) 00:32, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24 We have been informing the participants to simplify their non simple articles from the beginning weeks of the event. If they didn't simplify yet, we have no other options but not to accept. Haoreima (talk) 04:18, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Haoreima: do you remember the text about a disease that was totally simple (had a decent flesch-kincaid score) but that was virtually incomprehensible? Eptalon (talk) 10:18, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

@Eptalon Could you remind me the name? I can't recall. Haoreima (talk) 11:01, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

@Haoreima: As someone else involved in that mess, the article was schizophrenia. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:31, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

I looked at two more articles today and couldn't make up my mind. The contestant made them simpler than they were at the time of the preliminary evaluation, but they're still ranking about ninth grade on average. Darkfrog24 (talk) 18:55, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24 Article evaluation is completed. We need "Best Jury Article". Which article will you choose to be the best? Haoreima (talk) 06:18, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

You scored ALL the remaining articles? Wowie!

Oh how do I pick a really good one... Darkfrog24 (talk) 22:44, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

I suppose I must consider two categories: choice of strong topic and strong, Simple English writing. That was probably the biggest challenge for our entrants this year: meeting the needs of this Wikipedia's readers. Darkfrog24 (talk) 21:41, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24 And good citations in all the paragraphs as well. Haoreima (talk) 23:47, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

You are right, as usual. Darkfrog24 (talk) 18:17, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

I'm not even considering any article that got a "no" vote from either you or me.

I think every single entry in the contest this year had issues with the English not being simple enough. I remember recommending that entrants just create en.wiki articles more than once because the content and topic were otherwise excellent. So far my short list has Gold-digging ant, Ardah, and Yowlah.

If I have to pick one, I will say Yowlah. Darkfrog24 (talk) 16:51, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

When and where was this advertised?

Genuine (good faith, not angry) question. How have you all learned about the local-Wikipedia version of this contest? Are there going to be more contests this year? All I ever got was banners of a photographic contest on Commons, which is cool, but a different thing. I had no idea we were doing this writing contest here on Simple. I am so sad, I could not participate. I love this kind of events where people come together and write articles about the same topics. They are so fun! I had no idea we were doing this, even though I worked on SEW everyday since January. Well, I marked my calendar, so I can join in 2025.

Great job everybody ❤️ Thank you all for starting all of these articles! ❤️ I will join you next year, but I am so sad right now. (T-T)

Dream Indigo 20:35, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

I think I saw this from Simple Talk page and there was also a global contest named Ukraine's Cultural Diplomacy Month 2024 which also I saw from Simple Talk, maybe keep giving a look at Simple Talk or put in Watchlist that will help you or if I see any such editing contest on simple wiki I'll put a message on your talk page, have a good night -- 💌Ayesha46 (talk) 22:02, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Might be worth watchlisting the meta page -

meta:Feminism and Folklore 2024 Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:05, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

oh yes that too.... 💌Ayesha46 (talk) 22:07, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you both very much, @Ayesha46 and @Lee Vilenski, I just put both pages on my Watchlist. Have a great night and day (depending on your timezones) Dream Indigo 13:54, 22 April 2024 (UTC)