User talk:Haoreima

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Welcome![change source]

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Welcome to Wikipedia, Haoreima! I'm ImprovedWikiImprovment and an active editor here. Thank you for your changes. I just wanted to say hi and welcome you to Wikipedia! If you have any questions check out Wikipedia:Questions, or send me a message on my talk page. I like to help new people, so don't be afraid to leave a message! I hope you like Wikipedia and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Also, when you post on talk pages you should sign your name using four tildes (~~~~); that should automatically produce your username and the date after your post. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! --IWI (talk) 12:37, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

A Barnstar for You![change source]

Tireless Contributor Barnstar Hires.gif The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
Your great work editing geographic articles. Thank you for your work. Please keep going! George (Kirkburn) (talk) 19:29, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for motivation! Haoreima (talk) 19:42, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Adding references[change source]

Just so you know, you don't have to add references to a "Sources" section of the article manually. If you add a reference using <ref> or using "Cite" on visual editor, it adds references to the reference list automatically. --Belwine💬📜 14:35, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the information. Haoreima (talk) 14:36, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Interwiki language links[change source]

Hello, Haoreima. I noticed that you added interwiki language links to some articles. Please do not do that. Those links now go in Wikidata instead of in Wikipedia pages. If you have any questions about this, feel free to ask. Thanks. --Auntof6 (talk) 21:55, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

@Auntof6: Why so? I mean is it a problem to keep interwiki links in Wikipedia pages? Besides, could you please teach me how to edit the wikidata pages? I tried before but totally confused because of its different webpage features from the Wikipedia pages? Haoreima (talk) 10:49, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Interwiki links used to be on Wikipedia pages, but now they are put in Wikidata, as it is an easier way of doing it. I believe there were several bots that had to update the interwiki links..
Anyway, to add interwiki links to the Wikidata pages, just scroll to the bottom of the page, and you should see "Wikipedia (X entries)". Next to that, you should see an "edit" button - click that. Then, add the language code of your wiki in the box that says "wiki" on the bottom left, and the article name in the box that says "page" on the bottom right. Please ask me if you need more help. Best, —Belwine (talk) 10:57, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

@Auntof6: and @Belwine: Actually, @EmausBot: was helping me in connecting Simple Wikipedia pages with other languages, especially General English Wikipedia pages, when he found the interwiki links I have put in the articles I have created.

So, if my edits (inserting interwiki links) are not vandalism, then please don't remove them. Haoreima (talk) 15:47, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Yes, EmausBot found the interwiki links and removed them as the item is connected to Wikidata.
Your edits definitely aren't vandalism, they are in good-faith, but interwiki links are useless in articles, as they're on Wikidata. —Belwine (talk) 15:52, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
I have linked all the pages you listed on EmausBot's talk page to Wikidata. —Belwine (talk) 16:00, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

@Belwine: Thank you, Belwine. May God bless you.

BTW, then until I have sound knowledge of wiki data, can I depend on your help for connecting simple English Wikipedia articles with others? For that, to ease you, I will regularly tell you at your talk page which article should be connected with whom. Because some in simple don't have direct title in general. For example, simple has Atingkok but general has en:Sidaba Mapu. Haoreima (talk) 07:16, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

Ok, that's fine, I can connect the pages for you. —Belwine (talk) 08:40, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

Help with Wikidata and categories[change source]

Regarding guidance I can give you: my special focus is on making information accessible within and between WP projects. This includes:
  • Wikidata items for pages, including connecting to equivalent pages in other WP language projects ("interwiki" links)
  • Creating and populating categories for pages, maintaining hierarchies (subcategories) and interwiki links at the category level

This will involve my studying your edits till I get the scope of what exists. You can expect this will be somewhat systematic, with activity every day or so. If this seems suitable to you, I suggest we give it a trial. As the Users @Belwine: and @Auntof6: have already been helpful with your queries, and they're also highly active in the Simple English WP, here's my shout-out to them that I'm agreeable to picking up the task of upgrading Meitei pages with you here. NB: remember to indent your reply with a colon mark at the start of the line. -- Deborahjay (talk) 10:46, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Examine others' edits in Compare selected versions (View history)[change source]

Are you familiar with the "Compare selected revisions" feature of the "View history" tab? It shows you exactly what each next edit does.

  • Select a pair of edits by clicking on two "radio buttons" at the start of those lines.
  • This displays a pair of texts: pre- and post-edit with the changes highlighted (on the right). Below is the more recent page version.
  • (Note: Be sure not to edit there in an old version!)
  • If there are more edits after the pair you compare, you can view them by clicking on the right-facing arrows ("Newer diff").

I highly suggest you view these regularly if another editor (especially a more experienced one) is editing pages you've created and developed. -- Deborahjay (talk) 12:02, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Sure, thanks. I will try to follow your instructions as much as possible. Haoreima (talk) 17:27, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Learning Wikidata[change source]

Per our recent discussion on my Talk page: I consider learning the basics of Wikidata a valuable skill set for an active contributor as you are. Here are some suggestions to start:
1. View the edit history of d:User:Awangba Mangang. To do this:

  • In Wikidata, go to your own Contributions.
  • Open the downward-pointing arrow to the left of Search for contributions.
  • Where your User name appears (as "IP address or username:"), substitute Awangba Mangang
  • That name will appear with a gray background under where you entered it. Click on the gray-background name to confirm.
  • Below, select Search (blue box with white letters). This allows you to study Wikidata items edited by User:Awangba Mangang

2. See that you have the ability to add interwiki links:

  • Open the Wikidata item for Nongthang Leima (Q85789406).
  • Underneath the sections titled "Statements" and "Identifiers" - do you have the section "Wikipedia" with links to three WP language projects (en, mni, simple)? If so, try each link.
    • Write your reply here: Yes / No

Once you've had some time to explore the first topic and have answered the second, we'll discuss further activities for you. -- Deborahjay (talk) 22:18, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

@Deborahjay: Well, thanks for your help. I will ping you as soon as possible when I set my work to wiki data. I am replying you right now so that you may not get mind with me that I am not responding. I will always accompany the helps you render. Haoreima (talk) 14:51, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Email contact[change source]

On my User page I've enabled the "Email this user" function. It's at or near the fifth line under Tools in the left-hand navigation bar. Are you able to send me an email? I'd prefer not to give social media contact info here. Thanks. -- Deborahjay (talk) 14:11, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

I will try and tell you soon. Haoreima (talk) 18:01, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

New categories for Meitei topics[change source]

I just created and populated (i.e. added pages) these two categories:

Also, they're linked via their Wikidata items to to a matching category in the English WP. There you can find material for new pages here. Remember to use these categories instead of higher-level categories (like "Culture"). If the page name begins with the name "Meitei", the way to alphabetize the page within that category is to make a "piped link." Example: for the page Meitei religion, use [[Category:Meitei culture|Religion]] - this puts the page under the letter "R" instead of "M". Feel free to ask me if you have any questions. -- Deborahjay (talk) 15:03, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

@Deborahjay: Thanks for helping me. Could you mind if you add all the contents of Meitei deities, List of figures in Meitei mythology in the category Category:Meitei culture or Category:Meitei religion?? Haoreima (talk) 15:37, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Added both to Category:Meitei culture. Category:Meitei religion doesn't appear to exist. --Belwine (talk) 15:43, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

@Belwine: I mean all the articles of the gods and goddesses listed in the Meitei deities and List of figures in Meitei mythology. Not only those two certain pages. But all the article pages mentioned in the two particular pages. Haoreima (talk) 15:47, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Oh, sorry, I'll do that now. I'll create Category:Meitei religion as a lot of the pages seem to be about this. --Belwine (talk) 15:48, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
@Haoreima: I've done all the Meitei deities. Are these all associated with Meitei religion? (The ones I've added Category:Meitei religion to?) --Belwine (talk) 15:56, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

@Belwine: Thanks🙏🙇, habibi 😍👍😃 Haoreima (talk) 15:49, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

 Done :) --Belwine (talk) 16:04, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

@Belwine: Actually, the list of human beings (mortals) are not affiliated to Meitei religion though they are present in Meitei mythology. What shall we do then? I saw you added them while helping me! Haoreima (talk) 16:07, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Oh, which ones shall I remove the Meitei religion category? --Belwine (talk) 16:08, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

@Belwine: To ease you, please see at the "Mortals " of List of figures in Meitei mythology. The mortals need to be removed. Haoreima (talk) 16:13, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Pictogram voting wait.svg Doing... --Belwine (talk) 16:15, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
 Done! --Belwine (talk) 16:19, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

@Belwine: I will be grateful to you if you add them in a new Category Category:Meitei mythology, if you are free to do so! Haoreima (talk) 16:15, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Ok, will do once I have done removing the wrong categories that I added. --Belwine (talk) 16:17, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
Which ones shall I add the category to? I'm assuming the mortals in List of figures in Meitei mythology, but should I add it to any other articles?--Belwine (talk) 16:19, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

@Belwine: Both Mortals and Immortals (deities/supernatural beings) can be a part of Meitei mythology but mortals are excluded from Meitei religion. Haoreima (talk) 16:22, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Ok. Pictogram voting wait.svg Doing... --Belwine (talk) 16:23, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
Is everything currently in the category Category:Meitei religion related to Category:Meitei mythology? Then I can just add that category to Meitei mythology instead of adding all of the ones on the list to Meitei mythology. --Belwine (talk) 16:32, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

@Belwine: Everything's accurate. Thanks! Haoreima (talk) 16:34, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

So shall I add Category:Meitei religion to Category:Meitei mythology or is everything fine as it is? --Belwine (talk) 16:35, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

@Belwine: Yes, please add it. Everything is fine. Haoreima (talk) 16:38, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

 Done --Belwine (talk) 16:40, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

@Belwine: I will add the remainings from the list to the category myself. Btw, thanks for the help. Haoreima (talk) 16:43, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

No problem :)
You don't need to add pages in Category:Meitei religion to Category:Meitei mythology, as it is already technically in there. --Belwine (talk) 17:03, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
Oh, and it's easier to add categories using HotCat. You might want to consider enabling it, it can be very useful. --Belwine (talk) 18:14, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

@Belwine: 👍Surely, bro! Haoreima (talk) 02:19, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I discourage the user of emojis as they may show up differently or not at all on different web browsers --Tsugaru Let's Talk! :) 🍁 02:20, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

Sorry! I will not use it next time. Haoreima (talk) 02:23, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

You can still user smiley face by typing it! Like this :-) or :) , etc. --Tsugaru Let's Talk! :) 🍁 02:27, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

Mythology vs religion[change source]

I'm trying to make sense of the new categories about Meitei mythology and Meitei religion. The relationship between these categories is problematic for cultural reasons. We are writing here in English, a Western language, where the Abrahamic religions are primary and active today. Compare with older, pantheistic religions, whose pantheon of gods and goddesses are described as mythology. The Meitei religion has ancient origins, but is it practiced today? Compare with Greek mythology and Norse mythology. My suggestions:

Input from @Belwine: is requested. -- Deborahjay (talk) 06:01, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

@Deborahjay:

Yes, Sanamahism, the Meitei religion is still practiced today. It has 2,00,000 official followers till 2011 census. As compared to Hellenistic religion, it has more followers. For Hellenistic religion, currently, it has only less than 5000 official followers in Greece. Haoreima (talk) 14:32, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) @Deborahjay: Please note that on this wiki we don't separate things by gender as much as other wikis. Specifically, we don't separate gods and goddesses in various mythologies. See Category:Gods and goddesses and its subcategories for examples. --Auntof6 (talk) 07:04, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
That's an interesting and useful point I hadn't known, @Auntof6:. Thank you for pointing it out. I'm revising my suggestion (above). Let me also say, from the aspect of crosscultural information, that the gender of gods and goddesses is often, even usually, highly relevant - and it isn't easy or even possible to identify these by names in unfamiliar languages. I'm truly dismayed that sex and gender have become such touchy issues (like race and ethnicity, understandably, in some places) that this valuable information is excluded at the category level. -- Deborahjay (talk) 07:12, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
@Deborahjay: Here I don't think it's so much that it's a touchy issue as that it's simpler. We've had discussions about it and IIRC the consensus has been to separate only if there's a good reason. For example, we separate male and female sportspeople (under sportsmen and sportswomen) because they usually compete separately. We don't separate male and female actors/actresses or monarchs, which I think is because there's not much difference in what they do. I'd be interested to know why the gender of a deity would be meaningful enough to categorize separately. --Auntof6 (talk) 07:58, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
If the Meitei mythology needs to be a subcategory of Meitei religion, then I am happy to make that change now if I'm ok to do so. --Belwine (talk) 09:51, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
Thanks, Belwine - I just did so to prevent confusion. The Category:Meitei religion is now connected in Wikidata to the item Category:Sanamahism to match the page naming. I haven't yet examined what to do with the Category:Meitei mythology - perhaps it's a Wikidata orphan and needs an item created? -- Deborahjay (talk) 14:04, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

@Auntof6, Deborahjay: If you want to separate the categories of the gods and goddesses, it's ok. To ease your task, read at the first line of every article. For specimen, see Nongthang Leima, there you will see primordial goddess of thunder and lightning. Though Meitei words are unfamiliar to the Europeans and Americans, I am sure you will be able to differentiate the genders. Thank you. Haoreima (talk) 09:07, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

I don't want to, at least not without a general discussion. That's why I mentioned that we currently don't separate them. --Auntof6 (talk) 09:50, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
I too don't want to separate them, per the Simple English WP practice explained above by @Auntof6:. Therefore I'm creating the Category:Meitei gods and goddesses as a subcategory of Category:Gods and goddesses and of Category:Meitei mythology (noted above). Other editors are welcome to continue populating the new category with suitable pages. (I've been called to actions in other projects during the next several days). -- Deborahjay (talk) 14:04, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

@Deborahjay: No need to make Category:Meitei mythology as an orphan in wiki data, I recently created this mni:Category:ꯃꯤꯇꯩꯒꯤ ꯃꯤ ꯂꯥꯢ ꯇꯤꯟꯒꯤ ꯋꯥꯔꯤ. It's exactly for Meitei mythology in Meitei Wikipedia. Haoreima (talk) 14:27, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

Terminology (mythology or religion)[change source]

More generally, I think it is a religion if people still believe/practice it (or at least a significant group), it becomes mythology if it stops being generally believed. Nobody has really believed in Norse Mythology for centuries, and was replaced by Christianity. We have to be careful about referring to things people actively believe in and practice as "myths". --IWI (talk) 14:32, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
@ImprovedWikiImprovment:, see the page Sanamahism. That describes how this is the religion, with ancient sources, of the indigenous Meitei people in Manipur. I suggest not changing any of the terminology the pages and categories are using here in the Simple English WP. -- Deborahjay (talk) 14:42, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

@ImprovedWikiImprovement, Deborahjay, Belwine, Auntof6: So, as the religion is still actively followed, shall we put the Category:Meitei mythology into Category:Meitei religion or vice versa? In the Category:Meitei mythology, only the mortal beings (human beings) are listed. While, in the Category:Meitei religion, deities are listed.

Not quite: deities all belong in Category:Meitei gods and goddesses. The Category:Meitei mythology may need further subcategories, depending on the number of pages, such as Category:Meitei mythological heroes and Category:Meitei legends. -- Deborahjay (talk) 15:31, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

Actually, I want the names of the deities to be listed directly in Category:Meitei mythology. If done so, then, we can put the Category:Meitei mythology inside Category:Meitei religion. Everyone will agree "Mythology is the receptacle of religion." Haoreima (talk) 14:43, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

 Done -- Deborahjay (talk)

Thank you. Haoreima (talk) 15:51, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

@Deborahjay, ImprovedWikiImprovement, Auntof6, Belwine, Haoreima: The gods and goddesses are already in Category:Meitei gods and goddesses. Should they also be in Category:Meitei mythology or Category:Meitei religion? 2601:640:4000:3170:6C98:9E99:15C8:B667 (talk) 04:18, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
No, because the gods and goddesses category is already under those. --Auntof6 (talk) 04:30, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
I also have to say that there are a lot of Meitei-related things in Category:Religion and Category:Mythology, but I am not going to deal with all of them. 2601:640:4000:3170:6C98:9E99:15C8:B667 (talk) 05:45, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Archiving your talk page[change source]

Hey, I noticed you removed some of your talk page discussions. You might want to consider archiving them. If you need any help with that, let me know. --Belwine (talk) 12:24, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

@Belwine: I left some for sweet memories and cleaned some to prevent over spacing. BTW, thanks for asking me to give help. You are always unique among the Wikipedians. Haoreima (talk) 12:27, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) There is a template you can put on your user talk page that will automatically move things from your talk page to archive files. I think most users here use it. The template is at User:MiszaBot/config, and the documentation explains how to set it up. If you'd like to use it and want help with it, let me know.
And by the way, thank you for indenting your reply here! --Auntof6 (talk) 12:52, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
@Auntof6: You are also like Belwine for me! Love you, Habibi! Haoreima (talk) 13:39, 13 April 2021 (UTC)