Wikipedia:Requests for deletion/Requests/2022/Category:Female rappers

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Keep. There was no consensus to delete this category. The community should begin a larger discussion on gender categories through a different process to be consistent --Griff (talk) 13:37, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Female rappers[change source]

Category:Female rappers (edit · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete) · close request

InfernoGaming46 has nominated this page for deletion for the reason: We do not typically specify gender on simplewiki categories unlike enwiki categories (for example we only use actors instead of both actors and actresses), so should we merge this into Category:Rappers? InfernoGaming46 (IG46) (talk / changes) 20:42, 8 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please discuss this request below, but keep in mind that you shouldn't vote on everything and that there may be options other than "keep" or "delete", such as merging.

Discussion[change source]

Comment: For a previous discussion on this, see Wikipedia:Requests for deletion/Requests/2019/Categories for women by occupation. We don't necessarily have to abide by the previous discussion, however. --Auntof6 (talk) 20:46, 8 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Is there a reason for not including Category:American female rappers in this discussion? MathXplore (talk) 02:22, 9 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No, I didn't see that one. InfernoGaming46 (IG46) (talk / changes) 15:31, 9 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
How do you add it? InfernoGaming46 (IG46) (talk / changes) 15:37, 9 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@InfernoGaming46: In my opinion, it's usually not good to add to an existing RFD, because:
People who have already commented on it may not see the addition and may have had a different opinion on the added item.

People may have looked at the RFD and decided not to give an opinion, but they might have had given one if the added item had been there.

Whether these are valid concerns for adding the female subcategory here, I don't know. Auntof6 (talk) 16:07, 9 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep due to there being categories like female tennis players, female scientits, female athletes, why not have one for female rappers? It’s not like it’s an unheard of profession. 2A02:C7E:391B:7D00:1C5C:F85F:B443:CA0B (talk) 11:40, 12 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
On this wiki, we usually separate genders only if there's a reason to, and anywhere where there's a female category there should also be a corresponding male one. For example, female athletes mostly compete separately from the male ones, so we categorize them separately. Male and female actors (many women prefer to be called actors instead of actresses) do basically the same work, so they are categorized together. I'm not sure why we have female scientists separate. We should really be having an overall discussion about this instead of discussing one or a few categories at a time. -- Auntof6 (talk) 12:29, 12 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: This will be a difficult one, I closed the last one as 'no-consensus-keep'. The problem is tough: In sports, you'll almost never see a man directly compete with a woman, so there are the male-sportspeople, and the female-sportspeople. In the performing arts, there's no such limitation, so there's no reason to make a difference. As to singers: look at people such as Freddy Mercury; in singing there are techniques for men to sing in at least some of the women's registers. (I guess similar techniques exists for women wanting to sing in part of men's registers. In theatre, a character/role cross-dressing (from man to woman, or from woman to man) is very common. If there are too many rappers, would it not be better to classify them by geographic area, rather than sex/gender? - Also note: if we start making a difference between male foos and female foos, what about all the LGBTQ people?--Eptalon (talk) 12:53, 13 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Since it's relevant, I don't support a category "Female scientists". There's no difference in hiring or rewarding between men and women in science. Or in any academic job I can think of. Sports are a genuine case for separate listing (obviously). Many sports signal this by having separate competitions for the two sexes. Macdonald-ross (talk) 15:06, 13 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Right, the "Female scientists" really needs to go. --Gotanda (talk) 11:00, 22 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep for now. We should probably at some point figure out a solid policy for "female x" and "male x" categories, ie if we want them or not. But I don't think we should do that through RfD. If we were to have that discussion, my thoughts would be that we need to not be condescending to the reader. The reader needs simple language to understand English, but they are quite capable of understanding concepts such as categories. We can do complex things with Simple English. --Gordonrox24 | ^Talk 23:32, 15 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Could an admin set up an RfC or something similar on the subject of categories for professions by gender, that would run for a predetermined length of time, and then be closed? Sort of like this for redirects. Just to be clear: I am not expressing any opinion on the female rappers category. Lights and freedom (talk) 07:41, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If another admin does go ahead and set something like that up, can it please be set up differently to how the redirect discussion was. A lot of community time was wasted (at least IMO) on a discussion where nothing happened. I don't think it was simply because the way the discussion was set up was bad, but my opinion is just open up a topic and see where it goes from there. --Ferien (talk) 16:53, 21 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Ferien Fair enough. But sometimes when someone tries to start a discussion like this on Simple Talk, it gets one or zero responses and then gets archived. In this situation that would be kind of useless, because we've already some RfD in this area that were closed as keep and some that were closed as delete. Without more participants, it won't reflect consensus and can't be used to make a precedent or guideline. Lights and freedom (talk) 17:49, 21 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That was a total waste of time and effort. What ever happened to Deppty? Stirred the pot and left. Very disruptive. --Gotanda (talk) 11:03, 22 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This request is due to close on 20:42, 15 November 2022 (UTC), seven days after it was filed, although it may be closed earlier at the discretion of an administrator.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not change it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No more changes should be made to this discussion.