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Revision as of 19:44, 25 February 2012 by Cymru.lass (talk | changes) (→‎Simple Spanish: new section)


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Issues with categories

There seems to be a problem with template-generated categorisation, where the pages aren't showing up on the category pages.

I've noticed this issue for a while, but wasn't sure whether it was just caching or the job queue. Hoping there's someone who can give me an explanation or a solution. Osiris (talk) 00:26, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well for the first one I am going to assume its caching, unless you refreshed the cache of the page you probably wouldn't have seen it. For the other two the template that puts those two categories into the backlog category only does it when there is more than a certain number of pages in the respective categories. As both are empty they are not in the backlog category. -DJSasso (talk) 12:32, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Now that I notice you wrote this a few days ago when it was probably filled with articles I am going to say it was probably caching but I am not sure. -DJSasso (talk) 12:33, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps we need a cache-clear button on the backlog. Shakinglord (talk) 16:32, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I just recommend people enable the "Live Clock" gadget in your preferences. It puts a clock in your upper right hand corner of the screen which when clicked clears the cache of a page. -DJSasso (talk) 16:35, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Cleared the cache a number of times. I think I even edited the page and it still wouldn't appear. It obviously wasn't only me not seeing it in there, as it wasn't deleted until Creol did something to it (3 days after I tagged it). As for the other ones, when I posted this thread (6 Feb) both of those categories were full of something (RFP had Bluegoblin7's RFA and the QD cat was full of Racepacket's articles). Having said that, whatever Creol has done has gotten everything working fine now. Osiris (talk) 06:04, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It was odd.. It wasn't in the category before I started playing. I cleared the cat on the template (it isn't really needed as {{qd}} applies it by default) and it popped up in the category. Undoing my edit didn't make it un-appear though and it stayed through a couple other tests. It does seem to be a system maintenance issue and the system finally noticed it on my playing with the template... The monthly cats are notorious for it already, but they can usually be forced into recognizing the cat qd on a blind save (edit->save, no change needed) 70.184.171.16 (talk) 07:04, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In that case I am thinking it probably fell out of the job queue the first time and Creols edit put it back in to be fixed. -DJSasso (talk) 15:04, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This keeps coming back. I do think it's probably a job queue issue. The limits on transclusions of {{admin backlog}} won't work, nor will the auto-tagging of {{monthly clean-up category}}—see for example this empty one. I guess it's not a huge deal, just a bit annoying. Osiris (talk) 07:37, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Monthly auto-delete has seems to always have been an issue. Its a matter of either waiting for the next maintenance run/slot in queue to pick up the template state change or forcing it to reset and be included (Change page->save page, no changed done). This is likely the same with backlog - just because the template on the page can see it's location's status has changed does not mean the system has noticed it yet. 70.184.171.16 (talk) 09:06, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Medical articles in Simple English, part II

I have just formatted and inserted the Strep throat article on behalf of the enwiki WikiProject Medicine translation task force. Any feedback that could be provided will be appreciated. sonia♫ 06:56, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

My initial check was a simple readablity level scan of it. Given that it's a technical (medical) text, the numbers are expected to be a tad higher than normal. Unfortunately, with a 10.2 average (9.2 - 12.1 range) this is more than a tad high. The 57.4 reading ease level is not too bad, but could use some work. I'm off to beat it with a simple stick and see how much damage I can do to those scores. 19.15 words per sentence shouldnt be hard to improve on. There is also a lack of linking on non-SE terms to be dealt with. 70.184.171.16 (talk) 07:27, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I made a few edits, sorry for the conflict, but I'll leave you to edit it now. Thanks for helping out! Dcoetzee (talk) 07:38, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This seems like a worthwhile goal. I have a couple days off work - let me know what I can do to help. Kansan (talk) 07:41, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The beating with the simple stick seems to have had a bit of an effect - 8.2 readability average now (with three 7th's in there) and 68 ease score. Only lost 4 words per sentence (which I'm dissappointed about..) but still something. Lots of big words that cannot be worked around here so its a bit over the 7th grade limit. 70.184.171.16 (talk) 08:36, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I have to say I'm not a great fan of this page as it stands, though I see it's got a GA on enWP. IMO it's not even close to that standard. Our version goes on too long, and in too much detail. As a result some things which are absolutely fundamental get left far too late. You need to say right early on why tests are done. The reasons are 1. The physician usually can't see what causes it just by looking, and 2. In fact, the symptoms are most often caused by viruses, not bacteria. Also, the intro should say clearly that most cases clear up in a few days with no treatment at all. It takes 24/48 hours to do a 'throat culture' (I've never seen the results come back in less than two days!).
The issue of uncontrolled prescribing of antibiotics leading to multiple resistance is extremely important. A generation of young doctors is learning why anitbiotics should not be prescribed unless clearly necessary, yet some medical articles like this blithely talk in language of a generation ago. What I'm saying is that simplification is not the only issue when one is in a technical area like this; and (once again) it is often unwise to import whole articles from enWP. Macdonald-ross (talk) 13:45, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
IMHO, the issue with excessive prescription of antibiotics and the effects of this problem is not just not not extremely important, its immaterial here. While it certainly is an issue in general, that issue is something that needs to be covered under antibiotics, not strep throat. Including a "warning label" on every article that mentions antibiotics is hardly needed. This would be akin to adding a bit to any article that mentions a gun that says "Guns kill xx.xxx million people each year. Extreme care should be used when handling a gun." - Useful information, but it should be in the Gun article, not every article that links to Gun. At best, "Antibiotics can be used to treat Strep throat, but [[Antibiotics#Dangers|this is not always a good idea]]." could be used but even this is not really relevant to what Strep throat is and only of limited use to how it can be treated. (as you point out, the doctor should already know this and should take it into consideration with all due warnings to the patient on saving the antibiotics and using some later. 70.184.171.16 (talk) 01:35, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
With respect, you are missing the point. The page ventures into treatment, rather than just a description of the condition. Once it does that, its account of treatment is open to question. On its account of treatment, I just don't think it represents modern thinking in a sufficiently balanced way. Others may think differently; the issue should be adjudicated by reference to recent reliable sources.
I did not advocate any general rule about antibiotics, but if anyone thinks I exaggerated, consider the implications of this: TB (tuberculosis) has appeared in parts of India which is totally resistant to all known antibiotics.
It is a separate issue, but I think medical articles on this wiki should be careful on the question of treatment. Our general rule is 'we're not a 'how-to-do-it wiki'. It may be we should relax that restriction where, as with medicine, the readership would have a genuine interest in treatment. Still, as I say, we've not actually discussed that point. Macdonald-ross (talk) 07:49, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The treatment section is supported by 7 different review articles most of which where published in the last 3-5 years. Per the guideline for referencing medical material these are the highest quality sources http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:MEDRS While some people advocate not treating otitis media, sinusitis, and acute bronchitis with antibiotics no one within the medical community advocates not treating strep throat with antibiotics. If I have misinterpreted the concern in question please rephrase it for me.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 06:04, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
OK, that and the discussion on the talk page satisfies me, especially the point made by Doc J. on the talk page, that this bacterium has not yet developed resistance to penicillin. This interesting and important fact could go into the article, I think. Also, where the article uses the general term 'antibiotics', perhaps it should really say 'penicillin' or 'penicillin V'. Might be worth Doc J. checking our stub on rheumatic fever. Macdonald-ross (talk) 10:26, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
While Pen V is the first line treatment, many people say they are allergic and some truly are thus occasionally we use second line medications such as erythromycin sometimes. I will dig up a ref and add this though as I agree with Mac that it is an important point.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:20, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

MediaWiki 1.19

(Apologies if this message isn't in your language.) The Wikimedia Foundation is planning to upgrade MediaWiki (the software powering this wiki) to its latest version this month. You can help to test it before it is enabled, to avoid disruption and breakage. More information is available in the full announcement. Thank you for your understanding.

Guillaume Paumier, via the Global message delivery system (wrong page? You can fix it.). 15:18, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Medical articles in Simple English, part III

As part of a translation project as outlined here we will be generating 80 or so simplified medical articles. I know that some here do not find them simple enough but would like to remind people that this is a starting point. And based on the guidance from the main page of simple Wikipedia that "Simple does not mean short. Writing in Simple English means that simple words are used. It does not mean readers want basic information." If there is support to put these articles in the main space than we will do so. Else I can place them all as sub articles of my talk page. If this is not allowed I am than happy to move them to my own wiki or the main English wiki. Happy to hear comments. If consensus is that people do not wish this content here all I ask is that people hold off deleting it until I have a chance to move it to my own wiki.--Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:33, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please not that the articles you are about to create are highly technical. Even if you sipmlify them to a level where they are probably understandable to our readers, please make sure to also create the articles linked, where they do not exist. I have made the experience that there are many subjects where you happen to only have one editor knolwedgeable enough to create the article. Yes, I know, the medical world generally agrees on the meaning of "tonsils" or "pus", yet there seem to be few editors motivated enough to create those articles; so when you create the "interesting articles", please make sure to also leave us with understandable stubs on the annex ones we can understand, to expand later. --Eptalon (talk) 21:09, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
If we are needing definitions we could just link to Wiktionary... Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 18:13, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

New big weekend proposal

Hello, all. I've proposed a new big weekend here. Feel free to input your suggestions there. Shakinglord (talk) 16:16, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

On the s-block

I copied the table from en:s-block to s-block. What's wrong? --Kc kennylau (talk) 13:00, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Big Artillery Weekend

I am starting Big Artillery Weekend. The basis is to contribute to any and all eras of artillery, from Medievial to Modern, and all kinds of artillery, including rocket artillery. Jobs will include article creation, tagging, improving and others. It will start February 18th and end February 20th. Feel free to input suggestions, reports, comments below. `Shakinglord (talk) 20:46, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'd recommend that the weekend code be "BARW" to avoid confusing it with the Big Airport Weekend. -Orashmatash (talk) 20:47, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sort of wondering if it is entirely wrong that others are writing about howitzers and rocket launchers and I'm writing about BFG 9000S and the Death Star.. They may be fictional (the best weapons are in most concepts of the word best) but they still let military guys blow stuff up pretty well from a distance. --Creol(talk) 09:35, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I wish I had thought of it, go for it!--Peterdownunder (talk) 11:14, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Pages that need work

Progress

Currently four editors have made 69 edits, 15 new pages, and 1 new cat. Join in!--Peterdownunder (talk) 11:56, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Issues with Navigation Popups?

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T36480

Has anyone else noticed issues with Popups since the recent software upgrade (if anyone else here even uses them)? They're working OK on enwiki, so I suspect they just need updating here. If no one else has reported this, I'll report it over on enwiki -- let me know. --Auntof6 (talk) 21:07, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Most likely due to the MediaWiki software upgrade; I am having the same issue. It's got some JavaScript code in it which automatically loads the latest version from ENWP and since they have it fixed I'm not sure why it's not working here. -Orashmatash (talk) 21:16, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The script is hard-coded to load from https://secure.wikimedia.org/ which is having problems today. It should be changed to just the second mw.loader.load line. Let me know if you find other problems that might be 1.19's fault. -- ☠MarkAHershberger☢(talk)☣ 23:35, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The fix was trivial and should be working now. -- ☠MarkAHershberger☢(talk)☣ 23:38, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, but it still looks wonky. Here's a screenshot of what came up when I hovered my cursor over Qadar Yar.

bordered

Normally that information comes up in a window, not as text overlaying the other text on the page. Also, the text that pops up doesn't go away when I move the cursor off of the link. --Auntof6 (talk) 05:25, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for providing the screenshot. I see this displayed normally, so I'm not sure yet what the problems is. -- ☠MarkAHershberger☢(talk)☣ 13:42, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
OK, here's a screenshot from enwiki of what I usually see:
FYI, I use Firefox. --Auntof6 (talk) 21:20, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm getting the same, but mainly just on most category pages. I have hard refreshed a page affected - no change. Turned off the gadjet, hard refreshed and no popup as expected, turned it back on, refreshed, and back to not working. It is the same on both Chrome and IE9 (clean ie9, never been used on this site before so nothing to hook on). Affecting at least Vector, Nostalgia and monobook skins. --Creol(talk) 06:35, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the browser information and pages where you're seeing this. Investigating. -- ☠MarkAHershberger☢(talk)☣ 13:42, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Confirmed on Category pages. Thanks for the report! -- ☠MarkAHershberger☢(talk)☣ 13:44, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm seeing the same problem using Firefox also, but only on category pages. Osiris (talk) 20:05, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm using the latest version of Firefox and it's broken on all pages. -Orashmatash (talk) 21:27, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I can't reproduce this. Navigation pop-ups work fine for me on simple.wikipedia in both Firefox and Chrome. Tried it on both article and category pages. Can someone provide more specific steps to reproduce? Kaldari (talk) 22:40, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Using the last article I created as an example - it has the following cats. Some work fine, others are all wibbly-wobbly:
Im in and out of categories constantly though, so hard to tell which are cached or not. Of that list, the only one I can confirm being in during the last week was American singers and pretty certain I have not been in Stand-up for a while. --Creol(talk) 01:08, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I can't reproduce now even though I could before. Magically fixed? -- ☠MarkAHershberger☢(talk)☣ 00:03, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Not fixed for me. I even tried removing my customizations from monobook.js and that didn't make a difference. --Auntof6 (talk) 00:13, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
Popups has been broken since long before that upgrade. It has only worked intermittently for over a year now. sonia♫ 00:29, 18 February 2012 (UTC) (addendum: Currently working fine in fx, not at all in IE, and not on category pages in Opera, on win7, latest versions of all. sonia♫ 00:39, 18 February 2012 (UTC))[reply]

Very weird but User:sonia's note makes sense. Shortly after I wrote the above, I tried again and saw the problem on category pages. While I was playing with ?debug=true and the like to try and find why it works here (for example) but not on a category page, it suddenly started working again. I'm guessing this is some kind of weird caching problem. -- ☠MarkAHershberger☢(talk)☣ 00:31, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Has worked without problem for me - and is still working. (Firefox)--Peterdownunder (talk) 00:39, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah most of the gadgets for simple don't work reliably at all. It has always been a use at your own risk situation since we haven't had the editors to be able to keep them up to date and working in this community. -DJSasso (talk) 21:10, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Punjabi Articles

I've noticed an awful lot of articles being created by IP users / no-edit new users about Punjabi regions and people, which tend to be written in poor English and are on subjects that seem not very notable (but do seem to be real). Examples - Qadar Yar, most of the changes by Tegjveer singh, Yahya Mirza Eskandari, etc.

Since I'm not an expert on the subject, I was wondering if someone could look into them and see if they're actually notable / good for Wikipedia. Thanks. (: [+piccolo] 01:59, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes we have a known Pakistan vandal. This is probably them at it again. -DJSasso (talk) 03:38, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In total, there are perhaps 2-3 editors creating articles about Pakistan, Bangladesh or India. They mostly used IPs so far. One of them probably created an account. Rather than directly deleting the articles, I propose we run them through a "sanity check" (and perhaps a regular RFD), if they look that they could be notable. When I patrolled some of the articles, they looked half-way reasonable as to subject matter (I am not talking about language here, as it can be improved)--Eptalon (talk) 08:48, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A lot of these have been directly copied from books or websites. Qadar Yar was one of the few for which I couldn't find any evidence of copying. I should note that one of the users, 82.9.215.103, is blocked on enwp. Osiris (talk) 16:00, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

'View history' change

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T36449

I notice the 'View history' record now gives us pluses and minuses, but no summaries of total bytes. Is it possible for us to have that information as well? It can be quite useful. Macdonald-ross (talk) 18:10, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It might be a feature of MediaWiki 1.19, I believe, but I'd have to get that checked.  Hazard-SJ  ㋡  18:33, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You will have to go comment at the tracking page on meta to ask. -DJSasso (talk) 18:38, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This issue was already reported. I've added a link from the bug to the discussion here. -- ☠MarkAHershberger☢(talk)☣ 20:05, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's a MediaWiki feature, yes :). Just for transparency, the bug can be found here if anyone wants to comment. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 20:06, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It does for me if you hover over it. Kennedy (talk • changes). 22:02, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, hover over the pluses and minuses and it will tell you how many bytes are in the article. -Orashmatash (talk) 22:16, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Now I'm seeing it without having to hover.  Hazard-SJ  ㋡  00:35, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From what I see on Bugzilla, it was fixed and deployed to cluster.  Hazard-SJ  ㋡  00:36, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Non-patrollers marking their own edits as patrolled

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T36503

Why is it that some non-patrollers have been able to mark their edits as patrolled? -Orashmatash (talk) 21:05, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Because it happens automatically for auto-confirmed people I believe. -DJSasso (talk) 21:06, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It shouldn't happen automatically for autoconfirmed users. Reported.  Hazard-SJ  ㋡  23:12, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm now I see IPs doing it so yeah something is up. -DJSasso (talk) 23:19, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed  Hazard-SJ  ㋡  01:05, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Pikachu Picture?

I wanted to add an actual picture of Pikachu on the Simple English wiki for it, but I can't. I've already asked this on the English wiki and they told me to go here for help. Can someone do this for me? The Pikachu Who Dared (talk / contribs) 14:27, 24 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Image uploads are not permitted on Simple English Wikipedia, so any image you want to add to an article would have to be hosted on commons instead. Any media file uploaded to commons is required to be free to use in both the United States and the file's country of origin. See Commons:Licensing for information on copyright law in whatever country this may be (is it Japanese?). Osiris (talk) 14:46, 24 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'll try and do that, Osiris. The Pikachu Who Dared (talk / contribs) 14:53, 24 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Pikachu, please look carefully at en:File:Sugimoris025.png. Pay special attention to the "Licensing section" and to the "Fair use" section of this English Wikipedia page.

No free or public domain images have been located for this artwork. It is protected by copyright.

Can you understand that this is the reason that why no image can be added to Simple Wikipedia? --Horeki (talk) 15:16, 24 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Italic titles

It is possible to make italic titles with the template '{{italictitle}}'. This is done in enWP for titles of films, books, etc. Should we do this? A recent new page Bal du moulin de la Galette has brought this up. Macdonald-ross (talk) 13:54, 24 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I believe we already do do it. But alot of pages haven't had it added. -DJSasso (talk) 16:24, 24 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, we have that template. I've been trying to add it to everything that needs it, but you go ahead, too! --Auntof6 (talk) 21:19, 24 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Parser expressions

Anybody got any idea what's causing the error in these two location maps? It's showing up in transclusions. I've put it down to the centering in the map scale, but see no difference between our version and the enwp version. Osiris (talk) 03:10, 25 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Copied Template:Location map/Info from enwiki and it works now. -- ☠MarkAHershberger☢(talk)☣ 05:25, 25 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, but the actual transclusions are still broken (see e.g. Asakuchi, Okayama or Abiko, Chiba). The /info page looks to me like an instruction-only template and doesn't get transcluded. Osiris (talk) 05:39, 25 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Right, I neglected Template:Location map. Try now. -- ☠MarkAHershberger☢(talk)☣ 06:36, 25 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Looks perfect. Thank you very much! Osiris (talk) 06:44, 25 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Simple Spanish

Just wanted to let you guys know that I've started a discussion over on the Spanish Wikipedia to see what people think about the starting of a Simple Spanish Wikipedia (yes, I am aware that there have been past proposals that haven't succeeded). If anyone here has an opinion about it, you should head over there and give your input! I'll do my best to translate your comment into Spanish if you don't speak the language :) just comment on the discussion in English (keep it simple, please! My Spanish is good, but I have limitations), email me at tragicnotbeautiful

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
gmail.com, and I'll get to translating it ASAP! (The emailing me part is important. I'm a spacey person.) cymru.lass (talk)⁄(changes) 19:44, 25 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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