Wikipedia:Proposed very good articles/Archive 10

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Archived proposals[change source]

Horatio Alger, Jr.[change source]

Horatio Alger, Jr. (change · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete)

This article has been nurtured along for some time. This article is comprehensive and appropriate for this wiki. Please do not hesitate to contact me should you decide to review! Oregonian2012 (talk) 02:04, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Just on a scroll-down, there are red links. -Barras talk 11:34, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
There's a single redlink: moralism. PiRSquared17 (talk) 03:23, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
 Done Oregonian2012 (talk) 14:02, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
  • Some of the text, including part of the "Legacy" section is too complex. "Other writers slightly reworked the Alger moral and ethical outlook to suit more materialistic times", for example. "The quality of his literary allusions however makes his prose distinctive". I don't think this is Simple English. PiRSquared17 (talk) 03:23, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Has defects which should have been corrected long ago:
    No red links at all are allowed for VGA;  Done {{Related pages must be properly related (this one is not);  Done Dates of birth and death should not be linked, in fact years should not be linked at all unless very significant.
    The general simplicity of the language is borderline.
    The article makes little of his pederasty. There is a tendency for biographies to view the dark side of their subjects with leniency, or to omit it entirely (see our article on Frank Sinatra). We should do what we can to make sure that criminal and quasi-criminal activity by a subject is given due prominence.
    Overall, a fairly reasonable candidate for VGA. Macdonald-ross (talk) 07:09, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Closed as not promoted: I'm closing this as it's been ongoing for nearly 6 months now, which is, frankly, a bit ridiculous. If the article was ready it would have support for a promotion, and there are outstanding concerns both listed above and from a quick glance through the article myself. My suggestion would be to address any outstanding concerns, seek some informal reviews and then return. Goblin 23:25, 9 July 2013 (UTC) I ♥ The Rambling Man!

Commodore Nutt[change source]

Commodore Nutt (change · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete)

This article recently passed GA. I think it can go on to pass VGA. It is as comprehensive as possible in my estimation. There are not volumes of information on this man and about everything published on him has been entered here. My "head" is still into this subject at the moment. It will be easier to respond to your concerns. I look forward to your comments, and will respond at once. Oregonian2012 (talk) 12:28, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

I can support this going to VGA. StevenJ81 (talk) 19:10, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
Thank you, StevenJ81! Oregonian2012 (talk) 21:04, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
  • I've reviewed that article not too long ago for GA candidacy. I just had a look at it again and I've found nothing that would need to be fixed. A really good article which promotion to VGA status I happily support. -Barras talk 18:24, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
    Thank you, Barras! Oregonian2012 (talk) 20:57, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
We're really too scrupulous with PGAs. It has repeatedly been identified as a problem and is something that we need to correct. There's not much I can really find that needs addressing, and I also don't want to see it get revised so much that it becomes unrecognisable from the version recently promoted. The few things I can say are pretty minor:
  • The hatnote at the top of the article needs to go, since there's WP:NOARTICLE.
  • Only bold the title of the article once. Technically, you're supposed to include it as part of the opening sentence. "aka..." looks wierd, though; it might be better if you wrote "better known as..." and remove the link to stage name since it appears later in the same paragraph.
Osiris (talk) 05:47, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
Thank you, Osiris. I've made some changes in the first sentences of the lead. Oregonian2012 (talk) 13:10, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
That looks great. You could bold "George Washington Morrison Nutt" if you want, but I don't think it's a big deal either way. I support promotion now. Osiris (talk) 23:56, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
Thank you, Osiris! Your help on bringing an article to VGA is always appreciated! Oregonian2012 (talk) 00:28, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
  • I've looked at the article, and at the requirements for VGAs. I think there are still some long sentences that could be shortened, but since the requirements don't say anything about the article being simple, I will support this promotion. --Auntof6 (talk) 07:04, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
    Surely it goes without saying that articles should be simple...? Goblin 13:08, 1 September 2013 (UTC) I ♥ Auntof6!
    Thank you, Auntof6 for your support! I'm going to look at the article again and shorten long sentences. After all, this is part of the process! Thank you again! Oregonian2012 (talk) 20:31, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Closed as promoted: Taking a punt and closing this early per WP:SNOW. All the comments suggest that the article was pretty much ready after the GA nomination, and I found very little that needs changing (all now done) on a pass through. We've passed things with less than 5 supports in the past, and taking this through another week would be pointless, imo. Congratulations. Goblin 15:22, 8 September 2013 (UTC) I ♥ Jersey!

Thanks to everyone for your generous support and comments! Oregonian2012 (talk) 21:58, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Jumbo[change source]

Jumbo (change · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete)

Jumbo's story will be enjoyed by our young and old readers alike. I wrote this article from scratch. Please don't compare it to enwiki. We don't agree. Enwiki has Jumbo born in western Africa while my sources have him born in eastern Africa. Thanks. Oregonian2012 (talk) 21:16, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

I put some notes on the talk page a while ago and Oregonian was in the process of addressing them. Unless anyone else wants to step in and take over, I think this is going to be heading for an unsuccessful close. Osiris (talk) 03:00, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
Closed as not promoted. Since Oregonian was blocked indefinitely. Osiris (talk) 12:41, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Selena[change source]

Selena (change · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete)

The article failed its last nomination, it has since then gone through several copy-edits. If there are any more issues please let me know. Thanks, .jonatalk 02:55, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

  • I do not think we should consider it. A huge amount of time was spent on it last time, and it is essentially the same article. Macdonald-ross (talk) 09:17, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
I think it should be considered, but not at this time. If I remember correctly the closing suggestion was to go through the article informally to get it up to scratch before bringing it here, possibly going via GA first. Enough of the drive-by noms. Goblin 09:25, 10 October 2014 (UTC) I ♥ Macdonald-ross!
If you guys believe its not VGA-ready, I don't mind moving it to PGA. Best, .jonatalk 00:37, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
It's up to you whether you put it up for VGA or GA, but my comments stand either way: get an informal review before nominating, and ensure that the article already meets all the criteria. Note any article that is not up to scratch technically automatically fails as we have a requirement that articles are stable and not about to undergo multiple changes, although we're being a bit slack on that at the moment. Either way, my point about drive-by nominations stands. Goblin 21:47, 13 October 2014 (UTC) I ♥ Kennedy!
I think the article is great for a VGA status and perfect for a GA status. It's greatly references, has supported information, a descent amount of images, and it's simple. I enjoyed reading the article :) --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:05, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
@Bluegoblin7: Yes, I want to go through the PVGA process. The article has gone through several revisions and copy-edits by other editors during its run at PVGA last year, so I don't see how the article needs to be heavily edited this time around. @TDKR Chicago 101: Thanks for your support and glad you enjoyed it. Best, .jonatalk 01:47, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Just on a quick glance I noticed Selena#CITEREFL1995 which is terribly formatted. That is an article. Not a book. Yet it is listed like it's a book. Additionally, what is this author's first and last name? Only (talk) 15:09, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

 Done are there any more issues? Best, .jonatalk 00:58, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
Is there a reason why Early Success is a level 1 heading and Later success is a subheading under Early success? Regards, Pmlineditor (t · c · l) 18:57, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Closed as not promoted: No edits to article in three weeks, and no comments here in over a month. Stale nomination. Goblin 16:33, 15 December 2014 (UTC) I ♥ The Rambling Man!

The Lightning Thief[change source]

The Lightning Thief (change · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete)

This was promoted to GA couple of years back and almost no work has been done on it since then, so it's probably not close to VGA standard yet. However, I'd like to work on this article, so I'm submitting this for VGA review. Thanks for the comments / reviews. --Pmlineditor (t · c · l) 10:47, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
Further comment: Note that half the references on the page are to pages that are currently offline. I'll try to replace them asap. Pmlineditor (t · c · l) 12:25, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

  • I will put some thoughts on the talkpage.--Peterdownunder (talk) 11:38, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Although I have no doubts that any comments made on this VGA will be enacted swiftly and thoroughly - unlike other recent noms - I do have to comment that we've recently closed other noms based on them clearly not being ready and still to undergo major edits. This particularly articles strikes me as one of those cases, and I think it might be more appropriate to get the changes and comments made not as part of PVGA, but informally, and then bring the article back when it is at - or nearly at - promotion stage. That said, I'll try and give the article a look over in the next couple of days, and this is purely my personal opinion rather than any "decision" either way. Goblin 09:28, 10 October 2014 (UTC) I ♥ Fr33kman!
  • I've looked at the comments so far and have addressed most of them. I'll finish making the changes in a couple of days. Pmlineditor (t · c · l) 13:29, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
  • I have added a number of comments on the article's talk page regarding the language and style side of things. Yottie =talk= 17:49, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Thanks to everyone for putting up comments! I'm working on them, and I'll try to fix the problems shortly. Pmlineditor (t · c · l) 09:47, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
    I've handled almost everything, except the overlinking issue I guess. Any more comments? Pmlineditor (t · c · l) 14:49, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
Extend for two weeks: Progress is being made here, which is excellent. As the wiki seems particularly quiet at the moment, let's let this run for another couple of weeks in the hope that activity picks up a little! Goblin 00:06, 28 October 2014 (UTC) I ♥ Pmlineditor!
Anything else I need to fix? Pmlineditor (t · c · l) 14:19, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
I think it is looking very good.--Peterdownunder (talk) 21:45, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
I'm taking a look, and doing some simplifying. --Auntof6 (talk) 05:57, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

I have promoted the article; please adapt the pages I possibly forgot... --Eptalon (talk) 11:15, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm not going to revert the promotion, but the presence of maintenance categories (dated October 2014) precludes this article from promotion according to the criteria. It's certainly in good shape but I also don't think we have a consensus for promotion here, especially as the last comment was w/r/t "taking a look" rather than supporting promotion. Goblin 16:17, 15 December 2014 (UTC) I ♥ The Rambling Man!
Thanks for mentioning the maintenance category; it was from a dead link I'd forgotten to replace, but I've fixed that now. Pmlineditor (t · c · l) 08:01, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
Fabulous, I had little doubt that it would be promptly attended to. ;-) Goblin 14:55, 16 December 2014 (UTC) I ♥ Bsadowski1!

Hurricane Grace (1991)[change source]

Hurricane Grace (1991) (change · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete)

This is currently a good article here and a featured article on enwiki. I'd appreciate it if you would leave your feedback below. Eurodyne (talk) 02:15, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

It needs simplifying. Not only wording, but a lot of the sentences are compound and there are complex words. It would also be nice if the links to Wiktionary were replaced with either article links, simpler words, or explanations -- it's nicer for the readers if they don't have to go elsewhere to understand something. --Auntof6 (talk) 03:37, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 Done Simplified most of it. May need some help of other editors. Auntof6, I left a message on your talk page. Eurodyne (talk) 05:55, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
It looks good. I'll be checking the article another time right now. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 17:24, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
I did some more simplifying. My only comment now is that I think there's too much detail about the "perfect storm" that Grace formed part of. This article should focus more on Grace. We have an article for the other storm; let's put that detail there if it's not there already. --Auntof6 (talk) 04:02, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
Auntof6, I see that it only talks about the 'perfect storm' in the introduction of the article. Which section are you referring to? Eurodyne (talk) 04:43, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
It talks about it in the next-to-last paragraph under "Preparations and impact". Everything except the first sentence there is about the other storm. --Auntof6 (talk) 06:34, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
I've removed that part. Anything else I can do? Eurodyne (talk) 06:49, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, that looks good. There might be some more terms that could be linked. I'll check for that when I get a chance. --Auntof6 (talk) 07:08, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
I've linked a few more terms. --Auntof6 (talk) 03:22, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Reference 12 is telling me that the archive has apparently moved. This needs to be fixed. Regards, Pmlineditor (t · c · l) 19:11, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
  • I have to say this is not really a good article to my eyes, so it follows that it is not a very good article. The language is too clumsy. Sentences end abruply, and their connection with the next sentence is often unclear. Even inside sentences the wording is not good. "The storm had a small effect on the island of Bermuda when it passed to the south" is written instead of "The storm had little effect on Bermuda as it passed to the south" is both more direct and uses prepositions and other prose elements more correctly. Again, later "The beginning of Grace was" intead of "Grace began as"... Again, later, what on earth is that sentence doing in brackets (first para "Metereological history"). What that tells me is that the writer knew the paragraph had something wrong with it, but could not bear to re-write it.
    Often, too often, the wrong words are chosen. "larger" instead of "more" is exactly the kind of thing which should not happen in a good article. "A yacht, a type of boat" - what?? We may not have a page "yacht", but wikt does, and it's the job of a writer to find this out.
    Finally, we're not told the full story about the name 'Grace' not being retired. What should we make of it? Is it not the writer's job to anticipate and answer questions which might arise in the reader's mind? What occurs to me is that Grace was not a real hurricane after all. I could be wrong, but the article leaves me guessing. Macdonald-ross (talk) 21:28, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
    • You have some good points, but I'd like to see us not be too quick to include links to Wiktionary, especially for things that could have an article some day. I think we have too many such links. Once we link to Wiktionary, we almost never replace those links when an article does get created. It's also not the best thing to make people go to a different project to find something out. It's much better to explain a word/phrase, or simplify it where possible. --Auntof6 (talk) 02:32, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
I've removed all of the wikt links and have added them with simpler words. I'd appreciate it if someone would take a look. Eurodyne (talk) 07:35, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
  • It's now been three weeks. Is there a consensus to promote? Eurodyne (talk) 08:04, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
  • After more than a month of this request, is there any more feedback I could get?
  • Just to repeat myself: it is not suitable for promotion, and is only just about a good article. It does use simple words and short sentences, but does not read well, and lacks flow (see comments above). Macdonald-ross (talk) 10:20, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Not promoted: Not much work done in more than a month and no consensus to promote. --Pmlineditor (t · c · l) 08:25, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Airbourne[change source]

Airbourne (change · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete)

Have a lot of information. --Cristianho19 (talk) 13:23, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Oyster Burns[change source]

Oyster Burns (change · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete)

Currently a GA both here and on enwiki. Pretty decent article, meets criteria. I'm willing to make changes, just let me know. eurodyne (talk) 02:02, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Looks pretty good to me on initial inspection. My only question, mainly for @Auntof6, who's pretty good at this, is whether sentence structure is occasionally too complex. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:07, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I'd say there room for simplifying the sentence structure. I'll take a crack at it right now. --Auntof6 (talk) 21:11, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
Done. --Auntof6 (talk) 21:22, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
@Auntof6: updates? eurodyne (talk) 07:20, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
I did the simplifying I said I'd do. What other updates are you looking for from me? --Auntof6 (talk) 08:08, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
I think it's fine, except for the word "demote". But I can't really think of a good, simple synonym that captures the essence of the word. So sometime today (US EDT) I'll create a definition for "demote" in wikt. In the meanwhile, I support promotion. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:43, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
Not yet. Much of the article is boring statistics, yet when something real happens there is just no discussion. A colleague stabs him!?! And there is no discussion or explanation?? He severs a tendon, but plays only two weeks later? How does he do that? You have to run between bases, you know! The references are not much help here, as you can see. Biographies are about people, and readers rightly expect the human peculiarities to be given full weight. Macdonald-ross (talk) 14:08, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
@Macdonald-ross: As you have mentioned, the references don't really do a good job of explaining that. Do you think this article could still pass as a VGA if I took certain part(s) out? eurodyne (talk) 02:37, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
If you're referring to the stabbing &c., then I think this: it obviously was an extraordinary incident, and because it was by colleague it has to be explained and discussed (it was not a random street event). Without it, the biog lacks an important element. Biographies are about people, not just sports statistics. The obvious way to go is to the published biographies of him. The way to get those is through the public library system. Macdonald-ross (talk) 09:04, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
By the way, Burns was the person who did the stabbing, not the person who was stabbed (and severed his tendon). I think there was some mix-up in the comments above. Of course, I agree that there should have been a bit more discussion of that particular incident. You don't exactly stab someone who is sleeping and get away with it. Chenzw  Talk  14:40, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
Just glancing at it (literally) the imbalance of sections is glaring. We shouldn't have sections that are two lines at most. Balance it better. And agree with others...needs to be a more comprehensive biography. Only (talk) 16:12, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
Hey, just came by. As the original author, I have no problem with this nomination. I will say, however, that, on a cursory search of a service to which I subscribed on enWP, I found several articles of interest that aren't included in the current article; to name two, Tom Burns, Noted Player of the '90s, Dies at Age of 64: Was Member of Brooklyn Pennant Winners of 1890. Read his own Obituary. and An Idyl of a Diamond Hero: True Story of how a Hotel Fire Cemented a Friendship that Continued Thirty Years Although One Handed the Other his Obituary to Read. There's definitely more out there. Seattle (talk) 03:53, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
I am going to close this now. It's been over a month since the last edit to the article, and the two article I mentioned a week ago haven't been examined to find incorporative material. Renominate after you've incorporated all material you could find. Thanks again. Seattle (talk) 00:16, 18 January 2016 (UTC)