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Using the term movie instead of film -- when/where was this decided?[change source]

A user is asking about our practice of using the term movie instead of film. Specifically, he wants to know if this was discussed, and where he can see the discussion. It was before my time here, so I don't know. Can anyone help? --Auntof6 (talk) 03:32, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

I wouldn't know, I would say in my opinion "movie" is simpler. --Derpdart56 (talk) 03:44, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
@Derpdart56: Thanks, but if you don't know, then you can't help here. I'm not looking for opinions. I'm looking for documentation. --Auntof6 (talk) 03:45, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
@Auntof6: I did some digging, and found this archive, where some users debated about this. A consensus was reached, saying film is more standard due to WP:MOS. But, the MoS says movie is standard, so go with that. Hope that helps. --Derpdart56 (talk) 03:50, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
I am that user and feel quite strongly that the simple term 'film' (the term used in the UK and beyond) should be allowed for british films alonside the term 'movie' for US movies. There are lots of examples where banning the word 'film' would make an article more confusing. Film noir comes to mind. The rules I am used to on the complex english wikipedia is that it is important to be consistent on a page. For example if a page is in 'American English' you would expect 'color' and' 'movie. If the page is in British or Autralian or Indian English you would expect 'colour' and 'film'. I fail to see why 'film' is considered a 'complex' word (unless one is American). Brian R Hunter (talk) 04:00, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
@Brian R Hunter: Technically, both are right. It's confusing, MoS says movie, Archives say film. Use both. If needed, use redirects. I'm not saying that either should be banned. --Derpdart56 (talk) 04:04, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
To be clear, we don't completely ban the word film. We just use movie when talking about a motion picture. In the US, we also use the term film, so it's not just a case of different versions of English. In any case, this section is not a discussion of what should be used, just a request for information about where we decided to use one term instead of another. I'm changing the title to make that clear. Feel free to start a discussion about changing our practice, however. --Auntof6 (talk) 04:09, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
It has been decided on this page multiple times just look through the archives. But really the decision more comes down to the fact that one of our core principles is to always use the word with less meanings. Movies vs. Films isn't unique. -DJSasso (talk) 12:47, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
Film is a complex word because it has multiple meanings. We avoid words with multiple meanings when there are options with less meanings. While we do follow some of ENGVAR here on simple wiki such as color vs colour. We don't slave to it like en.wiki does. We use the simpler of the two words. To you as a native English speaker film might seem easy to understand. But that is not so for our target audience of non-english speakers. -DJSasso (talk) 12:51, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

Film or Movie or both - a new debate[change source]

I have recently joined 'simple.wikipedia' having been a long term editor on the en.wikipdeia. I like using simple English and have striven for easy-to-read content on articles I have edited. I have been moving pages over to this wikipedia, simplyfying as much as possible. One issue that has impacted me has been a perceived need to change all mention of the word 'film' to 'movie' on any page that mentions a motion picture.

My view is that both terms should be acceptable on simple.wikipedia. The choice depending on context. Movies in Britain are almost always refered to as 'films', and it is common in other countries too. There is no confusion with other meanings of the word 'film' due to the context. In Britain there are 'film awards' given to 'films'; it seems very odd to have a rule that says the wikipedia page should refer to these as 'movies' rather than films.

My proposed 'rules':

  • Film is a simple word.
  • Movie is a simple word.
  • If due to context, a reader might be confused over the meaning of the word 'film' then the word 'movie' should be used instead.
  • If an article is about a British film, the word 'film' should be consistently used and the page use UK English spellings.
  • If an article is about a US movie, the word 'movie' should be consistently used and the page use US English spellings.
  • Articles should not mix use of the words unless the page is describing the two uses.
  • US awards are for 'movies', even when it is a British film.
  • UK awards are for 'films', even when it is an US movie.

Please feel free to disagree. I would like this debate to result in a clearly visible enforceable policy rule. Brian R Hunter (talk) 04:53, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

  • Oppose These rules are too complex in and of themselves. I think you have probably misunderstood a lot of why we do what we do. Simple doesn't just mean simple to English speaking readers. We are writing for non-native English speakers. We are less concerned here about English variations than we are about using the simplest word. One we always use the word with less meanings, this doesn't just go for movies or films, this is in every instance of every word. It is one of the core tenants of Simple English. Secondly in other languages the word movie is closer to what is used in other languages than film is, making it simpler for people learning English to understand than film. Film is very ambiguous and we can't expect non-native speakers to always understand the context of the word being used. And a lesser reason is that movie is often simpler for children to understand than film, and children are our secondary audience to non-native speakers. This topic seems to get discussed every time a new editor comes here that wants to try to impose en.wiki style guidelines to our wiki. Just go through the archives this has been talked about a lot. Using film in some places and movies in other places is the definition of not simple. -DJSasso (talk) 12:42, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
The logic of your arguement would lead onto a standardised spelling too. It is simpler to have a single spelling than multiple spellings (color colour etc.) of the same word. Is this policy on simple.wikipedia? -- Brian R Hunter (talk) 12:50, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
No we haven't standardized on a single spelling because there would be no end of arguments for that, consensus would never be achieved. There would always be new editors showing up and changing words to their preferred version and we don't have the editor numbers to keep up with preventing that. (we have around 20 active regular editors) So we focus more on simpleness of words which is easier to enforce. -DJSasso (talk) 12:53, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
  • According to Wiktionary, film has several other meanings (originally: a thin layer of material); movie as form moving picture only has one meaning. You are free to use film, if you think you must; but when talking about the stuff you watch at the cinema (hopefully), then other editors may eventually replace the term by movie. Practicality is what counts here, not linguistic purism; Our audience is those learning English, and those having problems with the complexities of the regular English wikipedia. Yes, inflammable means catches fire easily; yet, emergency services talk about flammable substances (to not confuse people). Are we evil, when we try to do the same? --Eptalon (talk) 21:20, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
Oppose based on this reasoning. There are fewer definitions for "movie" than there are "film." There could be more potential for confusion. I don't think this is a big issue regardless though.~Junedude433talk 21:35, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
  • "Film" is the standard word in British English for what American English calls a movie. There's no doubt about that, and it is not ambiguous. Context in language determines meaning: many words do have more than one possible meaning. The word 'movie' sticks out like a sore thumb in a page which is otherwise in British English. We should "go with En wiki" as we do in many other debates. Macdonald-ross (talk) 09:12, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

I was looking through en.wiki.[change source]

I was searching through the LTA list on en.wiki. Apparently, a known vandal used the madeup word "eolgi" to vandalize. --Derpdart56 (talk) 15:45, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

Introducing: Wikiproject: Video Game Hardware[change source]

I noticed a lot of articles are missing about video game hardware! Let's fix this! I aim to increase the quality of these articles and create new ones. I hope you guys join me! Page here. --Derpdart56 (talk) 23:15, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

Dude, how many projects have you even made so far? Computer Fizz (talk) 18:59, 10 November 2019 (UTC)
Also, it is not necessary to create a project for everything you want to work on. WikiProjects here have a poor track record. --Auntof6 (talk) 20:43, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

Simple English Wikipedia's been seeing some drama hasn't it[change source]

--DimensionShifter (talk) 23:21, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

Yes, but to saome extent, thats normal, and nothing to worry about. Most of us are here for the content, and not for the drama...--Eptalon (talk) 20:45, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

QD criteria update maybe?[change source]

I think A4 should be moved to the general section. This could be used for user pages that are too niche for G11, but don't fit a specific guideline. --Derpdart56 (talk) 02:28, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

A4 is about notability. Notability only applies to articles so wouldn't make sense to be in general as general applies to all namespaces. -DJSasso (talk) 12:29, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
I do think we should overhaul our QD criteria sometime, but i don't know abotu this specific thing (i.e. why would a userpage have to be 'notable' ? ) Computer Fizz (talk) 17:58, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Purplebackpack89[change source]

Although the initial unban section has been archived, I wanted to note that I have changed my opinion in favor of maintaining the ban due to recent events on the English Wikipedia. Their ArbCom candidacy questions for The Rambling Man over there evidently show that they have not changed since 2011, still holding a grudge against the editor who was involved in a lot of the initial conflict. Vermont (talk) 12:05, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

How this is relevant if the discussion is closed? I have worked out my vote for if it opens again, but i thought the discussion was closed... Computer Fizz (talk) 18:01, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
I think he was just making it clear for people that maybe have been concerned. Its pretty much irrelevant anyway, as there was no consensus to unban even before he changed his vote. There definitely isn't now that he has. It is also quite successfully shows that the "People change over that long a time" arguments were not true as clearly he hadn't since he is still holding the grudge. -DJSasso (talk) 18:20, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

How do I tell if it's a test page or vandalism?[change source]

I've been here a little while. But how do I tell the difference between a test page and vandalism?--Derpdart56 (talk) 20:14, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

@Derpdart56: Per WP:AGF unless it's super obviously vandalism you should assume it's a test page. Computer Fizz (talk) 22:21, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
Test page usually means the content is just and edit where one of the buttons on the top edit box were pressed. Or something like "hi". Either way it doesn't matter use what you feel is appropriate and the admin deleting will use the appropriate one if its not. -DJSasso (talk) 12:28, 20 November 2019 (UTC)