Wikipedia:Simple talk

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Wikipedia:CENTRAL)
Jump to navigation Jump to search


Frequently vandalized page to add to your watchlist[change source]

John F. Kennedy has been getting vandalized again. (It happens to this page now and then.) It's not frequent enough to semi-protect, but maybe some of you would like to add it to your watchlist so we van catch vandalism sooner. Thanks. --Auntof6 (talk) 11:25, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

Added, how I wish there's pending changes here, nice case to apply it.--Cohaf (talk) 11:31, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
Cohaf, if there's consensus we could ask devs for it. Vermont (talk) 11:41, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
Vermont.I see, but how's the process and who can be allowed to review pending changes are things we have to sort out. Happy to discuss further. --Cohaf (talk) 11:44, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
I'd like to have pending changes on all our vulnerable pages. We have had some pages vandalised again and again and again. Macdonald-ross (talk) 13:26, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
Not the biggest fan of pending changes, especially in a small community as good edits end up sitting forever to be checked, at least in my experience seeing it on other small wiki's. It is always added with good intentions but not sure with such a small community that it would end up being any better than just watch listing pages. -DJSasso (talk) 18:27, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
I don't trhink pending changes (or whatever you call thew procedure) is a good idea on this wiki. This community isa too small to implement it. As an alternative, I'd see semi-protection (limit to autoconfirmed), or a special set of editfilters which would tag edits by new users/known LTAs on certain pages. And if we must: how many pages are we talking about, and how long till a piece of well-identified vandalism was reverted? - Without numbers, there's no meaningful discussion (except for the measures I proposed). --Eptalon (talk) 18:37, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
I don't think there are many regularly vandalized pages that aren't immediately caught. Even the one that started this section has hardly been vandalized (in terms of edits per month). Using the one in this section as an example, it did get a bit of a burst of vandalism last October but then it slowed down. Could probably have put a short temporary semi-protection on it. -DJSasso (talk) 18:39, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
Right, my use of frequent was meant to be relative, meaning often enough that more people watching might be helpful. I also watch the page on JFK's assassination, and the pages on Lincoln and his assassination for the same reason, as well as others. --Auntof6 (talk) 19:43, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
Pending changes seems like a good idea, but I agree with those who said above that we probably aren't big enough to keep up with it. We already don't keep up with patrolling new pages: we have pages that roll out of Special:NewPages without being patrolled. --Auntof6 (talk) 19:43, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
Actually we can turn on pending changes as a backup. When there's a need, at least it is fitted. Otherwise I guess although protection isn't predictive or anticipating, we can protect high risk article temporarily, e.g. During midterm elections result day, politicians articles often got vandalised, hence, we can preempt a short 1-2 days semi on some of the articles. Best,--Cohaf (talk) 02:26, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
Dear @Auntof6, Vermont, Macdonald-ross, Djsasso, Eptalon: administrator. Since all the time, "Phases of the Moon" is vandalized too, yesterday again. Why did not anyone ask for a sp? For the rest, this page has changed so little that a protection does nothing to IP. By putting pages in watchlist, it is already complicated. Wikipedially. Ping me to talk to me. --Eihel (talk) 04:48, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Reference list formatting[change source]

How would I propose converting the labeling of reference list sections? Take List of Ekushey Padak winners in Education and research for example, 12. 12.0 12.1 12.2 12.3 Ministry of Cultural Affairs, p. 1 if you where to look at similar formatting on enwiki you would see 12 a b c d Ministry of Cultural Affairs, p. 1. Can we use the lettering system here? Nunabas (talk) 17:35, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

Anyone? Nunabas (talk) 17:49, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

I imagine you would propose it here, on this page. Why do you think we should change, and what would be involved in doing the change? --Auntof6 (talk) 18:57, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

from what I can tell it would involve changing 3 interface messages [1] Nunabas (talk) 19:11, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
OK. That doesn't say why we should change, though. --Auntof6 (talk) 19:17, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
If your looking for why, Using letters is better for readability. take 12↑ 12.0 12.1 12.2 12.3 vs 12^ a b c d especially in reference sections where text is smaller. Take List of WWE alumni we have 181↑ 181.01 181.02 181.03 181.04 181.06 181.07 181.08 181.09 181.10 181.11 181.12 vs 181^ a b c d e f g h i j k l Nunabas (talk) 19:58, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
To be honest I find the numbers more simple than letters. It is clear that it is reference 181 and instance 1 or 2 etc. Whereas the letters don't make that clear. I am guessing that is why it is what we use here. Remember we try to be simple in all things, not just the language. -DJSasso (talk) 11:51, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
I guess we have different perspectives then, I find the letters easier and simpler. Nunabas (talk) 15:09, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
I should be clear, that I don't have a strong opinion. I was just pointing out why we might have gone the number route. -DJSasso (talk) 16:16, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

BBC template - Analogue/Analog & Digital[change source]

Hi, Just wondering should "Analogue" and "Digital" be removed from Template:BBC (thus just leaving tv/radio stations/other services),
Going by Analog_television#Transition_to_digital (at EN) most countries have switched over - Russia's expected to switch over in July 2019 and the Philippines in 2020/2021,
Thanks, –Davey2010Talk 22:07, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

IMO the template should be updated... not going to provide suggestions since this isn't a topic I'd rather delve into but the proposal seems relatively rational. Hiàn (talk) 03:49, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
Yes, rational enough to change.--Cohaf (talk) 04:18, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
Many thanks Hiàn, I wasn't too sure myself so wanted a second opinion, Anyway many thanks :), –Davey2010Talk 19:55, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

New Good article: Oxalaia[change source]

Hello all, I just promoted Oxalaia, it is outr 61st Good article. Congratulations to all tohse who contributed, and helped it get this status.--Eptalon (talk) 17:11, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Cite error references no text[change source]

This error message should be adding pages to Category:Pages with broken reference names but its not.... Nunabas (talk) 17:23, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

I've updated the code, but the job queue could take awhile to move pages if there are any. There may not be any. -DJSasso (talk) 18:05, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
Yep filling up now. -DJSasso (talk) 18:06, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Sock creating hoax articles[change source]

Could someone have a look at Special:Contributions/82.22.116.129? This is the same sock as the one described here. Uanfala (talk) 04:15, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

I think its part of the Pakistan POV Pusher we have had before. Just blocked, and removed their content. -- Enfcer (talk) 00:02, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Ideas for a writing assistance tool[change source]

What would your ideal tool look like, for helping any editor here to write better Simple English articles? I've long appreciated the Hemingwayapp and Upgoer6 tools, which take different approaches to highlighting complex sentences or vocabulary. What variation on those ideas, do you think could potentially be good on this wiki?

I've often wanted to contribute here more frequently, but I always feel hampered by not having a good sense of which words are too complex. I think having a tool something like those 2, embedded in the editing window (toggleable, of course), might help people like me to be more active.

I wrote some notes on the idea at phab:T135321 a while ago, and now I'm asking folks here for more feedback on whether you think this might be helpful at all? If so, what specific features would need to be included (or excluded) in order for it to be a clear success? (All dependent on if a programmer is ever inspired to implement it, or if it goes into next years' wishlist, etc). Thanks for any thoughts! Quiddity (talk) 23:38, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Due to the idea that being simple is somewhat purposefully vague we have found in the past when people have tried to create tools that you can't really have such tools to help you because beyond the Simple English word list there are no concrete rules or lists of words that work for a computer which needs such things. Computers just aren't up to the task of creating simple articles. (by that I mean helping) But you shouldn't be feel hampered. Assuming you are a fluent English speaker it is pretty easy to know if something is too complex. Someone in the past created a firefox dictionary for simple English which some people liked using but again that only helps with word lists and not so much sentence structure. Really most of how things are written here come down to instinct. Some people also run what they write through reading level tools. But that doesn't always match up with our goals either. You probably are not going to find the answer in tools unfortunately. That being said the Hemingwayapp is a nice one to get some hints from, but you couldn't do everything it says. -DJSasso (talk) 12:21, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
@Djsasso: Thanks for the reply. 2 small additions:
[edited] Here's an example of our intro to "Earth" run though Upgoer6 if you click on the highlighted words, it shows the words ranking from a Frequency list).
I'll add there's also Upgoer5 - If you paste in the same text to that, it provides a list of words that are not in the top 1,000, and if you mouseover those words it gives thesaurus-alternatives. It doesn't work brilliantly, but has possibilities...?
They're both very simple tools (I imagine they were weekend projects for the developer), but I think they (and hemingwayapp and similar) hint at very interesting possibilities, if given some more thought. Especially thought over time... (eventualism!). I think it would be good to have something a few years from now to make it easier for overly grandiloquent/lexiphanic/erudite writers (and maybe even for English-beginners) to easily adjust to this specialization, and to give starting points for more people to whittle away at Category:Complex pages. :-)
(Addendum) Oh, could you/anyone point me towards any past attempts to make tools? I searched but could not easily find. Thanks again. Quiddity (talk) 05:19, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
For example: I think the Upgoer6 idea could be improved for our use-cases by simply decreasing the amount of coloration for all basic words (those on the usual (both restricted and expansive) basic word lists and from frequency lists). There's too much signal-to-noise (colour) in the existing version for our needs, but it would be handy to know when a word that I think is common is actually more obscure in global or English-learner usage. Quiddity (talk) 08:25, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
  • We've been over this ground so many times. Our best editors of prose do it by writing simply: they are experts at doing it. Anyone who thinks a tool can help them is welcome to try it. Macdonald-ross (talk) 09:14, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Republic of Macedonia move to North Macedonia[change source]

As the country was renamed, shall we move the title of the title to the new name? Open for community inputs. Thanks.--Cohaf (talk) 08:29, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

I think so, especially since enwiki has renamed theirs. We'd need to rename the associated categories and articles, too, not just the main article. Changing links to the article could come after that, but not all those links would need to be changed: references to things that happened before the name change should probably either stay the same or be changed but have an explanatory note added. --Auntof6 (talk) 08:59, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
  • Well, at present that is definitely not the most commonly used title in English (a main criterion for page naming). If the bureaucratic compromise sticks and becomes general usage, then it would be proper to move the title. One should remember that its UN name is still FYRM! -- Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia... The language ordinary people use is very resistant to change. For example, the use of 'Holland' instead of 'the Netherlands' is so common that even the Dutch government uses it on many of its English-language sites. A title is not just about "it's official, so we use it". It is also about what our readers are most familiar with. We have titles of pages on birds as common names (and not the scientific names), even though the common names are often ambiguous. From the readers' perspective we are probably right to do it this way. Macdonald-ross (talk) 09:30, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
  • We technically on Simple English shouldn't have the names at common names for animals as they are often ambiguous and thus not simple. I have been fixing this as I find them and usually end up matching them to the en.wiki name. The whole idea of scientific names being to transcend language which goes right along with our mission (as "common names" can be different based on language or region a person is from thus sticking to scientific name which is used across all languages and countries is simpler). For topics like countries, generally current use outweighs commonname as people seeing an old name will just assume we are incorrect as opposed to it being common usage. It is why current sources carry a higher weight than older sources when determining names of articles. -DJSasso (talk) 15:10, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Transclusion[change source]

Could someone take a look at this article? Besides being uncategorized (which is how I found it), it seems to need... something. Maybe it's too Wikimedia-centric, or maybe it just needs to own up to being a Wikimedia topic; I'm not sure. Ideas? --Auntof6 (talk) 07:53, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Seems fine to me. Just needs the normal formatting a small article like that always typically needs. Could definitely use expanding but that isn't all that unusual. -DJSasso (talk) 11:33, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
Hmmm. Most of it is fine and needs cleanup, as DJ says. But it seems to me that the third paragraph is really a "how-to" instruction, and more properly belongs at WP:Transclusion (which already exists and has the information). StevenJ81 (talk) 22:26, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
What leaps out to my eye is the use of "article" and "page" which indeed is how we use transclusion in MediaWiki. However, my understanding is that the term applies to a method used in many other kinds of document, suggesting that the vaguer "document" might be more appropriate, and the Wiki-use should be a mere example. So, yes, too Wikimedia-centric for my taste. Jim.henderson (talk) 18:58, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Suggestion for Wikipedia motto[change source]

"A little bit of knowledge can be a beautiful thing" -79.76.81.29 (talk) 18:28, 17 February 2019 (UTC)